E67 | Race Day Insights with Elizabeth Clor

The easiest way to sabotage a marathon isn’t missing a workout, it’s making a tiny race day choice that snowballs. We pulled 252 responses from our WeViews “Race Day Insights” survey and sat down with returning guest Elizabeth Clore (Boston Bound author and a multi-time Boston Marathon finisher) to translate the data into decisions you can actually use on your next start line.

We dig into the hot-button topic of carbon plated running shoes and why 63% of marathon respondents race in them. We talk real benefits, real risks, and why stability can matter more than hype depending on your gait and terrain. We also get into brand talk, including the Nike Boston sign controversy and what marketing outrage cycles say about the running community, plus why some runners stick with reliable models like the Saucony Endorphin Pro even when flashier “super duper shoes” show up with $600 price tags.

Then we go deep on marathon fueling strategy and logistics. Elizabeth shares what she used at Boston: a smart mix of Maurten gels, UCAN pre-race carbs, Honey Stinger chews for when gels get hard to swallow, and Skratch Labs hydration for electrolytes plus carbs, along with how she carries a handheld bottle early and switches to aid stations later. We wrap with pacing strategy, A-B-C-D goals, Garmin screens that keep you honest, and the most common race day mistake we all make: going out too fast.

If you found this helpful, subscribe, share it with a training partner, and leave us a review. What’s the one race day decision you want to get right next time?

Transcript

Sponsor And Host Catch-Up

Casey Koza 0:32

This episode is brought to you by the Aid Station in Worcester, Ohio. Shop where the experts are. Shop where you know you're getting in-depth product knowledge. Shop at the Aid Station. Welcome to this episode of The Hobby Jogger. I am your co-host, Casey Coza, once again, joined by my co-host, Mr. Rob Myers. Rob, you got a new setup over there? Uh it seems to be working pretty well. How's it going?

Rob Myers 0:58

I do. Yeah, I finally uh broke down and bought a new laptop, got a new mic. You know, we don't have the budget, so it's coming out of my pocket, but I figure I need to upgrade, support the channel.

Casey Koza 1:10

Absolutely. And uh it does. Audio sounds great. Today we're joined by a returning guest. Uh, she is no longer the only author to have been on the show since Andy Glaze has released a book. But uh once again, bringing back uh the author of a Boston bound, Elizabeth Clore. And we're gonna go over some race day insights we we did with uh Weave Views. Elizabeth, welcome back. Thanks for joining us.

Elizabeth Clor 1:34

Thank you so much for having me.

Casey Koza 1:36

Yeah. Speaking of Boston bound, I know I mentioned you this beforehand, but I got to see you at Boston. You were on my tracker. Boston does a great job with the tracker, it's very accurate. Missed some people, maybe that I should have seen that I I know very well in in real life, but I did manage to see you, Elizabeth. So that was awesome. Uh, we did cheer for you. So I'm sure you didn't hear us because we were towards the finish line.

Speaker 3 1:57

In the zone, but thank you so much. I appreciate that for sure.

Casey Koza 2:00

Yeah, it was awesome to see you out there. And uh Rob, I'll look forward to seeing you out at Boston next year, maybe. Yeah, yeah, it's on the list.

Survey Results And Who Responded

Rob Myers 2:08

Um definitely looking forward to it.

Casey Koza 2:10

Uh yeah. So uh Elizabeth, the the reason you're here is we recently did a campaign uh with WeViews. We called it what, the the race day insights is is what it is. And we got a lot of respondents, 252, uh, which is a lot of data to go through, which is awesome. So thank you everyone who responded. We certainly appreciate that because in a data-driven world, obviously, you know, Elizabeth, you know, the more data you get, the the better it is, right? That's right. Yeah, and and I know a few things jumped out to me when I was reading through it, but we'll take it from the start. And just the people who took the survey. I was really surprised by this. The Boston Marathon was the number one respondent for the marathon. So, which I guess with your audience is not a surprise, you know, being the author of Boston bound, but yeah, I kind of thought it might have been, you know, New York or maybe a marathon that's a little bit easier to get into that isn't, you know, so time dependent. What did what did you think?

Speaker 3 3:04

I mean, I think it was probably Boston just because of the timing of it. I mean, if you had done the same survey in like June or July, people probably would not have said Boston. But if you're asking them what they're training for and that's the next big one that's coming up, I don't think people really have New York City or Chicago on the brain so much right now. I think they are starting to. Um, but I I think that that mainly had to do with the timing of when we of when we launched the survey.

Carbon Shoes Benefits And Risks

Casey Koza 3:31

Yeah. Okay. So that that that makes a lot more sense to me of of what kind of drove that number. Because I was that was, yeah, you know, because we have Chicago and New York on there as well, which makes a lot of sense. Boston, Chicago, New York, major marathons here. And I I know on the ultra side, Rob, uh, maybe something we're a little bit more familiar with, but new TMB uh taking taking the number one, not surprising. But we'll move on because this is something I would like to get into, especially with Elizabeth here. Um, the carbon shoes. I know, Elizabeth, it's I don't want to say controversial, but a hot button topic, I guess would be a better phrase. Carbon shoes.

Speaker 2 4:07

Yes.

Casey Koza 4:07

Are you a carbon shoe wearer?

Speaker 3 4:10

Yes, and I am. And you know what that's mainly driven by, well, it's two things. I mean, my competition is is wearing it. So if they're getting a leg up, I I almost have to to kind of be on the same uh even footing, excuse the pun, if you will, um, with them. And also it's um if you want a shoe that's lightweight, they you know, so many of them now they just have carbon fiber plated shoes in them. You know, the the shoes I used to race in, they don't they just don't make them anymore. So this this is the option for race day shoes. I used to love some of those lighter weight Mizunos, those lighter weight uh Adidas, like the Adidas Adios, not the pro, but the like the original. And these shoes are just no longer in existence. So you go out and you get the carbon fiber plated ones.

Casey Koza 4:54

Yeah, I know Adidas still makes, and I'm gonna say the wrong name. And I have a two pair of them, the SLEs. They still utilize the foam, the super foam, but they don't have the carbon plate. I really like those shoes. I'm guessing that's what a lot of respondents, maybe that aren't using the carbon plates, use. But 63% of our respondents in the marathon used carbon shoes. So I are you surprised by that? So many two-thirds.

Speaker 3 5:18

Um, I'm not. I'm I'm I actually kind of thought it would be more. It feels like I go to a race and everyone's wearing them. It just feels like they're just marketed very heavily. Everyone on social media has them. And it's it's either, you know, this is your race shoe or this is your training shoe. And, you know, runners are smart, so they're gonna get the shoe for what they're doing. So it it's been, it's become very pervasive over the past, I want to say, uh, two to three years. Maybe if we had taken this survey back in 2022, I think maybe you'd see less than half in carbon fiber plated shoes. But really, over the past three to four years, there's just been an explosion. Every every brand has not just one. It used to be every brand would have their one carbon fiber plated shoe. Now all the brands have like two or even three. Like ASICs now has three carbon fiber plated shoes. New Balance has two. Um, it's it's gotten, yeah, Puma has two, it's it's gotten very pervasive.

Casey Koza 6:13

Yeah, I know, especially uh uh Adidas, um, they have a plethora of of plated shoes, which we'll get into in a little bit.

Speaker 2 6:20

Yes.

Casey Koza 6:21

Rob, I know you recently ran an Ultra in carbon plated shoes.

Rob Myers 6:26

I did, yeah, and I'm still 50-50. I I felt like my legs were just destroyed by the end, but I did feel like it gave me a little extra, especially earlier in the race, going downhill. Um, but I'm on the fence. Like I don't know if it's worth it.

Casey Koza 6:42

Yeah, I'm with you on the ultra trail. You know, I I have a couple pair of them. It depends on the trail, trail specific. A little bit different, Elizabeth. You know, I know Boston Marathon downhill, right? And the the superfoam and the the plates save your legs for sure. Like I does that make sense. Do you notice more of a difference because it's the downhill pounding saves your legs rather than a flat course where you're just, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 7:08

I know I think I think it's the opposite. I think the downhill, continual downhill will kill your quads. And so my legs, you know, tend to feel better on a flat course like Houston or Indianapolis, tend to feel much better on a flat course than they do with Boston because the downhills, even if you're a very good downhill runner, the the um the extent of it will still just beat up your quads. Um, and then to have the the Newton Hills where you're going uphill, you know, during those miles 17 through 21, that will get you too. I mean and in switching topics a little bit, uh, as to the trail thing, I think a lot of these carbon fiber plated shoes lack stability. So if you're gonna be on a trail surface, that's a lot riskier. Um, you know, in terms of the the terrain, I would be very careful about wearing carbon fiber plated shoes on a trail. So that's my theory there on why the number is lower.

Rob Myers 8:00

Yeah. I agree with you 100%. The fact that the stability is not there with the super shoe. Like if I was running a more technical course, my ankle would have been turning at least once a mile. You know? It was I definitely had to pay attention to every step where other races where I don't have the same stack height, the same drop, I felt way more stable just to go. It's interesting. It seems like there's trade-offs. You gain a little, you lose a little, depending on what you're talking about.

Speaker 3 8:28

And I also think it really, you have to find the shoe that's right for you. It took me two marathons, two big missed opportunities to realize that those Nike Alpha flies were actually causing my legs more harm than they were given back to me. Um, they are fast shoes, but just for the way that I run, they caused leg actually cramping early on. We're talking like mile eight, nine. And um, it didn't do that in training because I wasn't going as fast in them. So lessons learned, run marathon pace in your in your shoes. But once I kind of ditched those alpha flies and um I found that my legs were back to normal and totally fine.

Casey Koza 9:25

Yeah. You know, what you said about stability. I had a pair that I was given to try from a company. I won't mention the company because it wasn't their fault. Yeah. Different shoes for different people, right? And I wore them one time in the trails that I always run, took them off and gave them away. I was like, I just, I will break my leg if I wear these shoes. I I just, you know, weren't for me, weren't for me.

Speaker 3 9:45

Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's why like the Nike Alpha Fly is an amazing shoe. You see people running really fast. It's got a great reputation. It just it just depends on how you run, what your gate is, and what shoe will work for you.

Nike’s Boston Sign And Brand Heat

Casey Koza 9:57

Yeah. And and I think it's very important to reiterate that, you know, Elizabeth, something that works for you or doesn't work for you is gonna be completely different from me overall. Like we're not saying the shoe is bad uh or something is I you know, it just it's what works for you. And it's yeah. Some people get defensive. Oh, that shoe's the great, it's like that's might be your great issue, maybe not my great issue. So that's right. Very good point to reiterate. Still staying on the the carbon shoe topic here. Really wanted to get your take on. I might have a little bit of a I guess a bad take or hot take here. Which brands own race day? Nike, maybe not the best uh advertising campaign for the Boston Marathon. Um a little bit of hot water there. I I understood what they were trying to say, and I actually don't disagree with them. I think there should be a space for everyone, whether you're a runner run fast or slower, whatever. But I'm excited to get your take on on that controversy. You know, you being uh so many times at Boston. What did what did you think of it? Were you jumping on the the hate bandwagon?

Speaker 3 11:00

Well, for the listeners who may not be familiar, let's just clarify that you're talking about that big sign that they had on their store that said, Runners welcome, walkers tolerated. Was that what it said?

Casey Koza 11:11

Yeah, I was glad you said that because I wasn't 100% sure what it said. I knew it was walkers tolerated. I couldn't remember.

Speaker 3 11:18

Yeah. And I I mean, yeah, I guess, you know, from uh, you know, I'm in I'm a chief marketing officer, is my day job, right? So you you never as a brand want to like alienate people, but you also do want to be provocative and you do want to say something that's gonna get your name out there. And kind of as a marketer at the end of the day, all PR is good PR. And you might have some people hating on it saying, I'm never wearing Nike and I'm gonna burn my Nikes. But they do that for like that's the 10 seconds of outrage, and then they're just gonna go back to wearing Nike if they like Nike.

Speaker 2 11:49

Yeah.

Speaker 3 11:50

I I I do think it was probably in in poor taste. Um, if I was the CMO of Nike, I wouldn't have gone that way. But at the same time, I think the internet just really likes to have outrage cycles and they, you know, they like to be the first one to get mad at something and to cancel something. So um Nike was a perfect fodder for that.

Adidas Saucony And Finding Your Shoe

Casey Koza 12:10

Yeah. And if you want to, as I'm sure you know, in marketing, if you want to sell to the faster runner, I think it's okay for them to want to do that. Like I I didn't take I'm I'm a hobby jogger, I can't qualify for Boston, and I didn't care that they did it. I don't like them for other reasons, but I had certainly had nothing to do with that. If I were them, I would have actually leaned into it, I think. And yeah, you know, this is where you know, we make the alpha fly the the the you know vapor fly shoe, and we do do that for runners, not for people to walk in.

Rob Myers 12:42

Yeah. People love to hate on the category king too. You know, they're the 10,000-pound gorilla. So any chance that people can get to hate on them, they'll take it.

Casey Koza 12:51

Yeah, they sure do. They were not the 10,000-pound gorilla in this group, though. They were tied to Socony and not far ahead of Brooks, which also surprises me a little bit. Adidas not making the list here, Elizabeth. I thought that was uh, especially after Boston. They have so many names. The Ada Zero, Evo, $600 shoe that set the you know, set the world record, one Boston, first second in Boston, I think, uh, for men and women, I believe. Um, did you run in the $600 shoe?

Speaker 3 13:25

I did not. I ran in like, I think a shoe that I got on sale for like $200 that had been $250. I, you know, I ran in years in the uh Adidas Adios Pro 2, and I thought that was the best carbon fiber plated shoe for me. And I set many a PR in that shoe, but then they came out with the three, it wasn't quite as good for me. Everyone that I know personally says it's um that there's a problem with the fit, and that was my experience as well. You're I it's either too big or it's too small, or the toe box is too small, or something like that. You know, once again, based on my small sample size of people that I've spoken to, that could really have hurt them in the carbon fiber plate category, making their Adios Pro 4, which is their most current model, not as popular. They also haven't come out with a new. I mean, I think the Adios Pro 4 came out over a year ago, where as you have these newer models coming out once a year with an upgrade to their carbon fiber plated shoes.

Casey Koza 14:23

Yeah, and and and I I really like the Audios, the Adios Pro line of shoes. The two, I had the two as well. I really like that. That's what I set my marathon PR in as well. I wish I would have got a couple pairs of them back when they're still being made, which I usually do that. Um but yeah, I I was and then the well, the new one, right? Now that we're gonna talk about this, yes. The new one, the $600 shoe, isn't a plate. It's like a I don't even know, like a disc around like the outside or something to cut down on weight because it's only like four uh it's four ounces or four and a half ounces, I think. Uh but pretty incredible technology that they're dumping into these shoes.

Speaker 3 15:02

I know. Like weighs about the same as a Kleenex or something like that.

Casey Koza 15:05

Yeah, something insane.

Speaker 3 15:07

Like nothing. Um I would be, you know, I would maybe be at my level kind of afraid to run in something so light that just doesn't have a lot of support or cushion over a marathon. I feel like when you get into that, that's sort of the same echelon of shoe as like that Puma fast R that's also very unstable, very light. You're having this new tier emerge that's like a super duper shoe versus just a super shoe. Um, that I um to me, it's just not worth the risk of the instability to have it weigh, you know, like half an ounce less or something.

Casey Koza 15:43

And you know, there's also a lot of boxes you can check off to get better at. Like you can increase volume, your diet can be better. There's a bunch of other things you can do before spending $600 on some, you know, UFO technology shoe, I think.

Speaker 3 15:59

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I raced in the Sokani Endorphin Pro 4, which is the first time I've ever raced a marathon in Sokani out of 40 marathons. That was my first Sokany.

Casey Koza 16:13

Okay.

Speaker 3 16:14

Yeah.

Casey Koza 16:15

What do you like about the Sokany shoe and will you continue to wear it?

Speaker 3 16:18

Um, I think so. Um as of right now, I plan to. I I like that it is comfortable and mainly that I can it's trustworthy. I I can trust that it's not going to make my legs cramp or fatigue uh the same way that the the Nike did with just my stride. Because when I wore the the Adidas Adios Pro 2 for many years, I just knew that my legs were going to feel good and that the shoe was not going to cause any problems. And the Sokany has a wonderful fit. It's got a great ride, it's comfortable, and it it's not, I would, I would say it's maybe not as sexy or doesn't have the bells and whistles of some of these other ones, but it's very reliable and it can do what I want it to do. And at the end of the day, that's really what's most important.

Casey Koza 17:05

Yeah, that's super important. That when you, you know, put on a shoe, you just know what it is, you can just go out and get your run in, you're not worried about it and how to lace it and you know, the the lockdown, everything like that. So I I certainly understand that and uh you know certainly have that to a degree with Adidas and and Hoka. So yeah, I I get it. Do you do you think like hobby joggers like me tie their usage of shoes into what the pros are wearing? Do you see that a lot?

Speaker 3 17:35

Uh not not as much. I and I really don't think you should. I feel like a pro runner is just a totally irrelevant comparison to what your sort of everyday hobby jogger or like amateur runner uh would wear. Uh you know, it could just be that um, you know, a Adidas had, you know, has a lot of great marketing, or maybe people are planning on wearing that that Evo um SL. I mean, I can't imagine people are gonna sign up to a lot of people are gonna be getting those $600 shoes.

Casey Koza 18:04

I would think not, but I've people, you know?

Speaker 3 18:09

Yeah, I would think maybe more of that's coming from the the Evo SL and that shoe really gaining traction. I mean, another way that you know that it's gained traction is you know they released it and now you go on their website and you can get it in like 30 different colors, right? So that's one indication that it's popular, is that they felt like they could release 30 different colors and have it still sell.

Casey Koza 18:28

Um I I wanted to get the Bob Marley themed uh color scheme. So yeah, I I like what they're doing with that. Um Rob, do you have plans to wear any other plated shoes that are that you're looking at?

Rob Myers 18:42

Not yet. No. I mean, I think for me, just like most of the the hobby joggers out there, the cost. I mean, that's really what kept me away for the longest time. Just the price is so high, man. You know, I mean shoes in general, you know, running shoes are are getting higher and higher in cost. But the super shoe, I don't know. I don't know if it's worth the difference.

Casey Koza 19:02

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, especially in what we do, trails. It's it's it's a tough sell for me. Uh yeah, we're old man.

Rob Myers 19:10

You know, we're not gonna break any records.

Casey Koza 19:12

Yeah, we don't just try not to break, is what we're trying to do. Exactly.

Speaker 3 19:16

But sometimes it's just fun. I mean, if it is your hobby, then why not get you know other hobbies? You know, if you're like, I don't know, if you're crocheting, you might want just a fun, different kind of needle. I what once I don't know anything about crocheting, but you know, it's even if it's not, you know, you're not spending the money necessarily to get the speed out of it, but it's just you know, you want some, you just it's your hobby. Yeah, spend money on it.

Fueling Stack Gels Chews Drink Mix

Casey Koza 19:37

Yeah, and and we yeah, we spend plenty on this hobby that's supposed to be cheap. So I agree.

Rob Myers 19:42

Oh, I do have 20 pairs of running shoes.

unknown 19:45

Okay, okay.

Casey Koza 19:46

Yeah, yeah, you're dead on there, Elizabeth. Yeah, why not spend it? Like it is your hobby. You're you know, you got the shorts, you got the shirt, you got the satisfied Mothtech shirt, Rob. Might as well have the shoes to go with it, right? Well, you know, I don't. I don't have it yet. It's coming. It's it's in the works. On to uh again, this one is super specific to the person. Runners, uh what they use in trust to fuel their race. And the brands here are gonna be super specific to you, trying out different things. Uh number one on the tights, gels, not a surprise, Morton with a big presence at this year's Boston Marathon.

Speaker 3 20:23

Yeah.

Casey Koza 20:24

Um, what did you use at Boston, Elizabeth?

Speaker 3 20:27

I used a combination of get ready for it, Eucan, Morton, honey stinger chews, and scratch labs.

Casey Koza 20:36

That's a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 3 20:37

Yes, I have it down to a science. I I would say the majority of my gels were Morton gels, um, most of them regular and one caffeinated. The Eucan was primarily used uh right before the race to get in extra carbs while keeping my blood sugar steady. But once I got going, the morton was a really good injection. I use the honey stinger chews intermittently because sometimes my body doesn't want to digest the gels, but the chews always seem to go down well. Um, and then the scratch labs hydration in my bottle was um primarily it's my preferred electrolyte mix, but it also has um uh carbs in it as well.

Casey Koza 21:14

Now, how do you handle the logistics of taking the drink mix with you, Elizabeth? Because it, you know, the pros get their little bottle at the table, which is very nice for them. We all wish we got that same service. I did get to stand there and watch it. It was pretty interesting to see what all they did. But how do you handle the logistics of taking the drink mix with you? Because I know you're probably not wearing a vest, right?

Speaker 3 21:36

No, I just hold it in my hand, which I, you know, a lot of a lot of people who I interact with on social media, they see that I'm racing with this huge handheld and they're like, how do you hold that? And I I just train with it because I I don't like wearing a hydration vest or a belt. I don't want anything like on my body. And I've been carrying the same type of bottle for many years and I'm just used to it. And I don't carry it for the whole way. It's just so that I can make sure that early you want to get your hydration in early. And I want to make sure that I get enough hydration in during that first hour. So usually I'll carry it for the first hour to hour and a half, and then after that, I'll rely on the water stations.

Casey Koza 22:15

Yeah. I know I've started out a few races with a handheld, even though I have the best, you know, because I have you have 11 miles to an aid station or something. So yeah, makes makes perfect sense. I didn't see a lot of people doing that. I believe uh friend of the show, Mr. William Walmsley, started out with a handheld. I'll have to ask him what he did with it, uh, if it's laying on the street in Boston somewhere, or if he just put it in his shorts, I don't know. But yeah, the drink mix starting to become very popular, I know. Yeah 38 and a half percent of our respondents do use a drink mix of some sort. Yeah, 80% of users using gels. That's no surprise, I don't think. Yeah. Whole foods. No Whole Foods on the course for Boston, I don't think.

Speaker 2 22:56

Yeah.

Casey Koza 22:56

Yeah. That's probably more of the ultra-running crowd. Um, candy and sweets, pretty easy to to to carry. Yeah, gels being the clear number one. Yeah, really good to see Morton out there. Did they have the caffeinated gel on the course?

Speaker 3 23:11

They did. You would run through and then it would be sort of like, you know, there's here's your water, here's your Gatorade, here's your non-caf, here's your with calf. So they did it similar to how it would, you know, you would have a water station. So um I I brought my own Morton gels with me, but I'm never I'm never gonna turn away free Morton. So I I made sure that I ended with just as many as I brought.

Casey Koza 23:32

Yeah. I I yeah, I was I was wondering because if you're not used to the caffeinated, that can really have a negative effect on you and race day, I would think.

Speaker 3 23:40

So yes, I only take one of them and I take it about two hours into the race.

Casey Koza 23:45

Got it. Yeah, I well, one of the first ones I I did in Ultra, I had a caffeinated one before the beginning of the race. Not a good idea to do that, I found out. Um a lot of caffeine in those. Yeah, Rob, don't don't eat the caffeinated gel before the race turns out.

Rob Myers 24:01

No, I stick to just plain coffee, man. And honestly, I'm I'm so surprised whole foods be candy and sweets. Yeah, I'm a little surprised by that too. Um yeah, we know the reality of what that looks like, but I mean if you're not familiar with it, you picture somebody with a sweet potato, like you know, running past the aid station, there's a whole food, you know. Yeah.

Casey Koza 24:23

Yeah.

Speaker 3 24:24

Sugar and fries.

Casey Koza 24:26

Yeah, I could stop at one of the bars, the pubs on the long of the way there and get an order of fries, would be. Yeah, yeah. Whole foods. Um and then all the brands that you listed, never second making the list. That's what I'm a fan of. The gels and uh drinks. The the next one, um, how closely do runners stick to their fueling plan? Uh yeah, I was uh maybe not surprised by this that ha almost half of respondents are just somewhat they make small adjustments, which means you deviate from the plan. Um I I'm guessing, Elizabeth, just from talking to you, you're you probably pretty closely stay on your plan, right?

Speaker 3 25:04

I do. And actually, you know, the the faster I'm running, the harder it is to stay on plan because the the more you're exerting yourself and the more you're able to exert yourself, the less your digestive system wants to work. So when I've had uh races where I just for whatever reason I couldn't run to my full potential, all the fuel goes down perfectly and on time. Whenever I've set like a PR and I'm like running my guts out, literally, it's very hard for me to get the fuel in. My body just kind of rejects it. So there's there's the irony for you.

Casey Koza 25:38

Yeah, I I agree with that. Cause I think just you're under stress and body's trying to survive, not to eat. You know, it's you know, I don't, you know, fully understand the biomechanisms there, Rob, but it makes sense to me. We also have six percent who just don't follow a fueling plan. That's our our friend Grace Myers, for sure her, and uh nine and a half percent that loosely follow it. So I think there's probably a lot of room there rather than maybe using the six hundred dollar carbon shoes, Elizabeth, that maybe people maybe stick a little bit closer to the plan. What do you think?

Pacing Plans Garmin Screens And Goals

Speaker 3 26:12

That's right. I think they should I think they should try to. It's also they need to they should they need to be practicing it in training. I think a lot of people don't realize that you you need to fuel, you know, oh on race day, I'll um that's when I'll have my five gels, but for training, I'll I'll only have one. I I think there's a benefit to not always having five gels, you know, in your long runs, but you need to do it uh several times at least just to acclimate your digestive system to it.

Casey Koza 26:38

Yeah, and I'm I'm certainly bad at not doing that uh as much as I should. I know. I should do more, I don't, I just eh, I'm at mile 16, I got four more to go. I don't need to eat anything. This next one, uh one of my favorites to talk about, uh, the pacing. Only 14.7 percent had strict pace targets. So, you know, going through splits at a, you know, whatever their time was, and then overwhelming majority, 50%, that their general pace range that they plan to stay within a price range. So that's pretty good. 2.8% full send, you know, just whatever happens, happens. I like those people, just cowboys living on the edge or cowgirls living on the edge. How do you uh and I'm just by talking to you, I'm kind of sure I know. Um, how how do you go about your race planning strategy?

Speaker 3 27:31

I I usually have a rough idea of of where I want to be. And and sometimes, depending on the race, I'll be more conservative with it. Sometimes I'll be more aggressive, sometimes I'm more likely to take risks, sometimes I'm less likely. I I usually don't fly blind. I usually do like to kind of monitor my pace on my garment. I'm not staring at it throughout the whole race, but I do like to kind of check in and know where I'm at and be pretty close to what I plan for. I do realize though that I feel like sometimes that does limit me. Like I actually kind of think I maybe could have run Boston a little bit faster if I had been less rigid about my strategy and maybe just gunned it a little bit harder in the in the first half. But once again, you you never know. You it every race is a learning experience.

Casey Koza 28:16

Yeah, for sure. And that's really the best way is learning. Curious. And on your Garmin, yeah, what do you have the settings to? What do you show on your watch?

Speaker 3 28:26

I love this conversation. I'm such a data nerd. So I have it rotating between two different screens.

Casey Koza 28:33

Okay. And on one screen is wait, does it automatically rotate or do you have to touch it?

Speaker 3 28:38

It's called auto-scroll.

Casey Koza 28:39

I need to look into this. Okay.

Speaker 3 28:40

Okay, so it auto-scrolls at a medium pace. So it will display one screen for two, maybe three seconds, then we'll go to the other. So it's it rotates between two screens. So if ever I look down at my garment, I'll see one of two screens. One of those screens is my lap pace. So that's the pace that I'm in per mile. So if I'm halfway through a mile and it says 730, that means I've run this the first half of that mile at a 730 pace. Um, and if I if my target for that mile is 730, then I just keep running. If I would actually like to be running a 720 pace, but at halfway it says your lap pace is 730. I'm like, oh, I'm a little bit slow. So um I have that shown. It's the only piece of data on the screen. It's my lap pace. That's the that's my main thing. I want to know how fast my current mile is and what I'm on track to be running. And then the other screen kind of in the middle, the biggest piece of data is the elapsed time. How much time have I been running?

Speaker 2 29:41

Okay.

Speaker 3 29:41

And that's that can be super motivating as I kind of come to the end and I can calculate maybe where I'm going to finish. And then in a in a smaller number on top of that elapsed time is the is the total distance that I've run. So I know my total distance, my total time, and then the average pace of the entire run. So um I can see that, which is more that's more for kind of informational purposes only because it's that's a big kind of a big picture view. But that's my those are my two. So it's really four data points on two screens that automatically rotate back and forth.

Casey Koza 30:15

No heart rate?

Speaker 3 30:17

Nope. I don't, I don't look at that um until after I'm done because I I used to always train by heart rate and I was very rigid about it. But then, like, you know, I did that for five years. I started to know, okay, I know what zone two feels like, I know what zone three feels like. I don't need a heart rate monitor to kind of know what zone I'm in. So I graduated to just um not showing that and then looking at it afterward.

Casey Koza 30:44

I think I might start doing that. Yeah, I know where I need to be. And it just kind of, I think probably, especially in a race like Boston, you're excited at the start line, right? Like it's a lot of excitement. You're if you look at your heart rate, it's probably not going to be accurate to your actual effort level.

Speaker 2 31:01

Yes.

Casey Koza 31:01

Um, so no reason to have it displayed. And you run enough, you know what your effort level is and and how you feel.

Speaker 3 31:07

So yes. But I do recommend, I do recommend, you know, newer runners get their VO2 max zones, know what your heart rate zones are, train in those zones. That's very, very useful. If you're kind of just starting out and trying to get a feel for how hard you should be training.

Casey Koza 31:23

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um this is just you know talking the race day. Yeah. Um so no one's confused here. And and really what it is for me is just because like, yeah, the excitement of the start line, things can be different. Like, you know, there's a lot going on. It's not just you going out in the morning by yourself on like the nice, you know, quiet trail or or wherever you run. And it, you know, it's a little bit different uh race day to just a regular run. So I I get why you you kind of don't use that. Um makes sense. Rob, what do you have on yours? Just regular strawberry.

Rob Myers 31:56

Oh just looking at my pace. I have the heart rate on there. I don't I don't think I pay attention to my heart rate during a race. Um during training, I do. Yeah, not so much during the race. So Elizabeth, do you have like a plan A, B, and C?

Speaker 3 32:11

I always do.

Rob Myers 32:12

I have like my A goal and four, and they say, well, if I wake up and the weather's perfect and I'm feeling good and I had enough sleep, and then that's plan A all day long, as far as what pace I want to hit and what my goal is. But if one of those things are off, then I'm gonna move to plan B. And then if things fall apart and I still want to finish like we all do, then I'm rocking plan C. I mean, so what does that look like for you?

Common Mistakes Starting Too Fast

Speaker 3 32:35

Yeah, absolutely. I'll usually have like I'll just call, I won't necessarily call it plans, but I'll call it goals like A goal, B goal, C goal, D goal. Usually the D goal is just to finish healthy, knowing that that's really the most important thing. And the A goal will be, you know, an aggressive, either a PR or a course PR or like something like that, or just, you know, something that's that's fast for where I think my fitness is. And then I'll just kind of tear it down from there. But I I like to have a a plan B, C, and D that's gonna make me feel like when I finish the run, I've achieved something. Because mentally it's really hard. It's really difficult if you end the race thinking that you just totally failed it, you didn't gain anything. You always want to come away with something positive.

unknown 33:20

Yeah.

Casey Koza 33:20

And it's it's very nice to have confidence after I could have gone faster. You know, I could have had a better, I felt like I could have had a better, like you want to have that rather than, you know, moonwalking across the finish line in zombie mode and like feeling defeated, right?

Speaker 2 33:37

Yes.

Casey Koza 33:37

Yeah. That brings us to the most common erase day mistakes. Uh I was not at all surprised at the most common, uh, with 37% of runners starting too fast, Elizabeth. Uh I thought this number was kind of low. What did you think?

Speaker 3 33:57

Um, I I think yeah, I I kind of thought it was too too low, too. I mean, I I think, well, let me back up. I think that the respondents here seem to be pretty sophisticated. If they're running Boston, they're pr probably pretty experienced. So if you kind of have more of a beginner, newer runner crowd, you might then see them starting out too fast. But I think the more experienced runners tend to not make that mistake as often.

Casey Koza 34:21

Yeah, that's that's a very good point. And yeah, makes a lot of sense. I I know in the the ultra world, uh, the carnage is just, yeah, there's a lot of carnage at some of these races where you'll go buy people at, you know, pretty early sometimes that are just not having a good day. And it's generally went out a little too fast. I I do like the I I like what one of the quotes here is felt good early and paid for it later. Like if you feel good early, uh, that's like that's good. That's where we want you to be. Just you know, we want you to stay to your pace and and what your game plan was, right? Like if you're feeling bad, yeah, obviously don't, but like if you're good, like that's okay, we're gonna have a good day. Let's let's maybe not blow up today, but it seems that there's a lot of of blowing up. Yeah, 37.7 percent. Rob, have you ever gone out too fast?

Rob Myers 35:11

I typically do, unfortunately. I mean, it it's super common. I'll look down at my watch and I'm like, what am I doing? It's only mile three. Like I need to slow down. And I do pay for it. And typically there's a bit of a lull and then slowly build back up to where I want to be by like mile six, mile seven. But no, I'm guilty of it almost every single race. By the third mile, I look down and I'm just cruising way too fast.

Casey Koza 35:35

Because you feel good. You do which is good because you've done all this work to get to this point, you fuel properly, you've ate the night before, hopefully slept, and now you feel good. So that's uh, you know, let's try not to do that. Uh Elizabeth, I know you're very experienced, you're sticking to the plan like me. I, you know, I what uh the absolute thing, last thing I want to do is blow up and have a miserable time out there. So maybe I start out too slow sometimes, but I how do you handle it? Like, because you're in and you've run Boston a bunch of times.

Speaker 3 36:07

Yes.

Casey Koza 36:07

So you're you've been there, done that, you know, you're a pro at this point. Like how, but how did you starting out, I guess, 2005 Elizabeth?

Speaker 3 36:15

Yeah.

Casey Koza 36:16

Talk about um because experience is what's gonna stop that from happening, like you said.

Speaker 3 36:19

Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, 2005 Elizabeth was uh very, very conservative. I would negative split like every race because I was afraid that I, you know, I wouldn't be able to complete it. So um it wasn't until I had like seven or eight marathons under my belt that I, you know, didn't start off at like my snail's pace. Um but I will say with Boston, every time I had run Boston, I think like the the five times before that I had run it, every time was a huge, like positive split. Like I would get to the Newton Hills, my legs would be trashed, and I would have this big slowdown after. But you know, the last five miles of the course are in net downhill. I've never been able to take advantage of it. So this year my main goal was to feel good and to take advantage of those last five miles. And I did that, and I and I was able to feel really strong. And it was my first time in Boston. But then, of course, in retrospect, now I'm like, well, maybe I just went out too slowly. You know, it this I think that's part of being a runner. You're always going to question yourself because I went out saying, okay, I'm gonna go out conservatively. And then I ran maybe like, I don't know, I ran like 40 seconds slower than my goal time. And then I'm like, I should have gone out faster. So you just never, you never know. But I think this was this was a great Boston for me in terms of now I know I can run Boston without slowing down at the end. And so now maybe next time I run it, I can be a little bit more aggressive, knowing that it's within me to actually be strong for the entire race.

Casey Koza 37:58

Got it. So you you kind of answered my question that I was gonna ask you. How did you get over that mentality, I guess, of just wanting to start out very slow and then, you know, negative split? Where now it's like, okay, I'm gonna go out and take a chance. Because I think I kind of have a hard because I just don't want to be out there miserable is really it for me. Yeah. But like last year at the Fall Classic Laurel Highlands, I got to the end, I was like, wow, I I really feel really good after this. I I could have done so much more. And that's fine. At least I feel good. I can, you know. So it's hard for me to get over that mental block of being able to push myself, but maybe one day I'll get there.

Speaker 3 38:29

Yeah, it's hard. I mean, one time I before I had broken 130 in the half marathon, I was trying to break 130. And so I went out with the 130 pacer, not sure if I was capable of it. And he took us out just a little bit too fast, and I ended up running like a 130, 150. So I was like two minutes too slow. And at the end of it, I'm like, okay, look, if I hadn't run with that pacer, maybe I could have run 130 and change. But I know I couldn't have run under 130. And I, but I was happy that I took the chance. I was glad that I at least went for it because otherwise, at least now I know.

Casey Koza 39:05

Yeah. Yeah. At least now you know you learned and you know, you have a ton of experience. So and the more experience you have, the the better you get at these things. Yeah, this this whole thing here was was very interesting, Elizabeth.

Speaker 2 39:16

Yeah.

Casey Koza 39:17

And kind of to wrap it up here, what were I guess some things that uh you found the most informative here, or that you think people can maybe improve or or how to improve?

Post-Race Beer And Wrap-Up

Speaker 3 39:30

Um, I mean, there weren't too many uh big surprises, but I I think that you know the common pattern that we see is is that people, in terms of their their pacing and their race day, they're everyone realizes that you can't know exactly how it's going to go. It's always going to be a little bit of an unknown. So I think these responses indicate everyone's just trying to give themselves the best opportunity for success. And the more they race, the more they'll know what that is. But it's never going to be perfect. I don't think you can ever run a race and just set say that like I absolutely ran the perfect race. I couldn't have squeezed one more second. I think, um, but I think that's as I said earlier, I think that's really what makes us runners is that we always want to push to that next level. We always, we always want to go, you know, be be better and and push. And I love that about the running community. So so yeah, that's what that's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing a lot of a lot of runners who are just motivated to set up race day to make themselves successful. And there's there's gonna be a few a mixed bag, right? There's gonna be a few that are like, I'm not gonna plan it out. I'm just gonna go with the flow, and that's how I do my best. It's just whatever the day gives me, it gives me. Some are gonna be very precise in their race day prep. Um, so it's gonna it's gonna run the gamut. But I think overall you're gonna see just a really um motivated group of people trying to get out there and see what they can do.

Casey Koza 40:54

Yeah, for sure. And and real quick, Elizabeth, do you recover with a beer or not? Because that was a question on here. Are you a beer drinker afterwards?

Speaker 3 41:04

I will drink beer in the the evening that then not like immediately after, like when they hand you a beer. I'll usually say no unless it's that like St. Patrick's Day race, and then in that case you have to. Um but usually um, yeah, I'll have I I do like beer, and so I'll have a beer with dinner that evening. I just need like a few hours before I go there.

Casey Koza 41:25

Yeah. Uh only 21% of people drink one after. Rob, where where do you fall on that? Oh, yeah.

Rob Myers 41:32

Of course I want a beer after the race. Yeah, that's that's a must for me. And it tastes probably the best after a race. And you feel like you really earned it at that point. I mean, let's be honest. Yeah. You know, if you're gonna go out and and run crazy mileage afterwards, have a beer or two, you earned it.

Casey Koza 41:47

Yeah. I've I've got mine cracked before I sit in the chair, so uh I I am in the 21%. 40% of people know drink, okay? 37, 7 sometimes. Yeah, a little surprised by that. I guess, you know, maybe my friends aren't the the greatest recoverers out there, so I have a skewed sense of uh what is going on out in the running world. But yeah, uh yeah, 20, 21. Wow, only 21%.

Rob Myers 42:12

Man, we should not be running coaches, Casey. We're uh kind of a bad influence.

Casey Koza 42:16

No, Rob, that's pretty clear at this point that we should not be running coaches. Uh yeah. I but Elizabeth, thank you so much for doing this with us. Thank you so much for doing this episode. It was great to see you at Boston, even though you didn't stop and say hello to me.

Speaker 3 42:28

That was I'm so sorry.

Casey Koza 42:29

Yeah, that was so rude of you. But uh yeah, it was awesome to see you. I forget, I think it was like mile 20, we'll say between 22 and 24 somewhere. So yeah, you looked really good, looked strong. Yeah, I was happy to see you out there and crushing it.

Speaker 3 42:41

So awesome.

Casey Koza 42:43

Appreciate the time. Uh Rob, thank you very much for for buying a new laptop so your audio sounds much better. You're welcome.

Rob Myers 42:50

So, Elizabeth, where can our listeners find you?

Speaker 3 42:53

Um, on Instagram uh at Elizabeth Clore. That's uh Elizabeth C-L-O-R, or my blog, which has very detailed race reports, uh at www.elizabethclore.com.

Casey Koza 43:07

Thank you very much again, Elizabeth. We certainly appreciate your time and uh look to see you out there maybe next year at Boston.