The Hobby Jogger Podcast
Welcome to The Hobby Jogger Podcast, where elite athletes and ham-and-eggers lace up their stories. We explore the common ground that running creates from the world-class runner to the hobbyist hitting the pavement, trail or treadmill. Expect a blend of inspiration, laughter and the shared joy that makes every step count. Join us on this journey, where every run is a story worth sharing.
The Hobby Jogger Podcast
E58 | Happy Tendons, Better Runner
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Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Hobby Jogger. I am your co-host, Mr. Casey Coza. I am once again joined by my co-host, Mr. Rob Myers. Rob, how are we doing today?
SPEAKER_01I'm doing well. Excited to get back at it. We uh we missed a week. I don't know if that's ever happened before.
SPEAKER_02No, it hasn't. We took a brief uh hiatus there. Yeah, you know, sometimes life gets in the way and things get busy. So it happens.
unknownWe're back.
SPEAKER_01We had a pretty good run, though. You know, two years. I don't know if we missed uh a single episode.
SPEAKER_02So two years. Didn't didn't didn't miss a beat, didn't miss a scheduled episode. Uh also scheduling, you know, things happen. So whatever, but we are we are back. It is now daylight savings time, so it is pitch black at 455, which is great. But Rob, we have a great guest today. Uh we know him, we've met him. Friend of friend of the show, Mr. Abu Gergis. Abu, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00Doing well. Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, now I I know you are a DC in CSCS. Could you please explain to those listening what those are? Because I have no idea, and I'm working either.
SPEAKER_00Uh it's all alphabet soup at the end of the day. So DC is doctorate of chiropractic. I'm a chiropractor by trade, and CSCS is certified strength and conditioning specialist. So I've been a coach of I'm 28, 19. Damn, nine years. Yeah, nine years now. Time flies. Time does. So I've been a coach for nine years, and I graduated chiropractic school in 22, so three years. Got it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and shout out to my chiropractor, Dr. Rook, here in Ohio. I I the back certain did did did ting a little bit. So made an appointment. Gonna get in there Monday. He's gonna fix me, shove the hip back into place, and yeah, so so I can continue what it is that I do. So, yeah, chiropractor, I'm a big fan. Rob, do you go?
SPEAKER_01I have. Don't need to at the moment, or maybe I do, but I guess I'll find out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, massive fan of the chiropractor. I know so many people that are. I is it controversial to say that, Hebu? Like, I feel like there's people that say it's not real. And I give my opinion of two years ago, I went in there. I could barely feel my feet. Like, I was like, my back hurt so bad. I didn't want to stand up. I went in there, Dr. Rook adjusts me. Immediate pain relief. Like I walked out of the building pain free, and I I just feel like chiropractic maybe gets a bad rap. Is that am I accurate there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, 100% does. And it's one of the it is controversial. Um, it has a long history throughout the medical healthcare world. Um, and there's a lot of schools of thought within the chiropractic field. Um, and some of these thoughts are very kind of out there. Everybody has their own individual viewpoint or like clinical philosophy. Some people get ragged on more than others, but at the end of the day, everybody's working towards the same thing with the just helping patients as well as they know how to. Um, so I'm a what's what would be considered a rehab chiropractor. I do the adjusting, I do the massage, the manual therapy, um, but I'm very focused on exercise and rehab and education. I don't have a single patient where I only put my hands on and I send them out the door. Everybody gets homework, everybody moves around during a visit with me. Um, and like your anecdotal experience was perfect. Like I might have different opinions compared to your clinician, but your doctor got you out of painting, made you feel better. Awesome.
SPEAKER_02Truth, that's all I care about is exactly my experience. So, but then I I'll read, which I should never read the internet, Rob. We know better than to read the internet. It's a dangerous place out there. It's like, oh, it's like I don't know what they call it, like pseudo science. It's like, I don't know. I couldn't feel my feet walking in the door, and I walked out of there just fine. Like right, I it wasn't in my head, like the pain was real. I I could barely walk. I so I I'm a big fan and big believer in in what it is that you you do in the chiropractic. I I don't get homework from him like you give, but it's probably he understands what I do. You know, Dr. Rook, you know, what race are you going out to run now? Like, what are you training for? So he under I think he believes that I do enough myself that, you know, get myself healthy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's like the different schools of thought. Um, don't get me wrong, like I'm considered like a black sheep in my industry because I don't always adjust all my patients. Um, there are some that live and die by the adjustment and think that that's all we should do. And it's like multiple schools of thought, and it's like uh one big chaotic happy family is like how it best describe chiropractic. And then the rest of the medical industry just kind of like rags on us shamelessly, which is totally fine because we get patients better, and that's all I care about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's get get me results. I don't care how you well, I I do care how you get them. Uh, I shouldn't say that. Don't be just like injecting me with you know lidocaine to make the pain go away. Let's actually get the pain away. So yeah, I I do care to a degree of of how you get it done, but yeah. And I and I know Rob's gonna get really mad at me for talking about that when that's not the subject I want to bring up first, because I want to go back to like how you started out running. And and Rob hates when I go out of order like this, right, Rob?
SPEAKER_01No, no, not at all. I mean, that's a simple edit, right? You just move things around, it's just magic, doesn't take much time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you're you're used to it now, but you're also a runner, Abu. You've run quite a bit in your life. How how did you begin running? What was where did you start? Are you like a high school cross-country track kid?
SPEAKER_00No, I wish I was though. I did, and so I've been running. I always say like I've been running the better half of my life, but I've been an athlete my entire life, ever since I was a kid, between like soccer, basketball, like the regular like rec school stuff. And when I got into high school, my main sports were lacrosse and wrestling, and then in college I got really into competitive boxing, and just all those sports need a high gas tank. So I just always ran and I always enjoyed it, and that was always like the best thing I was. Like, I was always the kid that didn't really get tired. I wasn't the fastest, but I never got tired. And then I did one season of JV cross-country, and this is where I regret it because I had a I was just an arrogant high schooler. I hated the training, I didn't like my coach, so I quit. But I kept running, and then boxing, I had you I ran so much, fell in love with, and then after boxing, when I was time to like, all right, see sophomore junior year of college, let's figure out what we want to do with our career. CTE was not one of those things I wanted, so I just leaned very heavy and running, and like that's when like I started running for sport. Um, but like running has always been a special place in my life. Um, it's always been like my safe space, the place for me to clear my head. We're gonna get pretty deep. Um, so my father passed when I was 11 years old, and like most 11-year-olds couldn't really fathom death, especially one of the close ones. And running was always the space I went to clear my head. I still run this route to this day. It's from time to time. The church I go to is an exact 5k from my house. And I remember a lot of nights where I couldn't go to bed for whatever reason, we don't have to get into it. I would run to church, I would sit because it would be locked, because it would be like 11 o'clock. And we had these beautiful cherry blossom trees in front of the church entrance, and I would sit there, I'd pray for a little bit, and then I'd run back home. And it would be like spontaneous 10Ks I would do. Um, but it was always my safe space to like clear my head, like block out the noise. And I think we can all relate to this to some capacity, it still is to this day. So running for sport, I think I started when I was 18, 19, but running as an activity since I was like 12, 13 years old.
SPEAKER_02Nice, that's a great story. And I think there's a lot of people that do that for whatever reason, whatever they need to get out of a run just by themselves, where you're just isolated from everything else, you get a chance to think, you get a like a quiet place. I know I get asked, like, because Annie, my girlfriend will ask me, Why do you go down to the tow path? It's like because it's quiet down there, there's not as many people, and I don't have to cross streets, I don't have to think about anything. I could just turn my head off and just whatever I need to think about. If there's problems I need to solve at work, something I can think about, it's my time. So I I certainly understand it's like meditation for you, right, Abu?
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's great healing mechanism. You know, very sorry to hear that your father passed at at a young age. That's trauma that's so hard to deal with when something like that happens to you. And I I'm glad you found a way to deal with it, a healthy way to deal with it.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Thank you. I mean, made it on the other side, I think, pretty okay. So it's uh all part of a plan greater than mine.
SPEAKER_02Heck yeah. And and there's a lot of people that don't. I mean, right, you know, running for you was something that you had and helped you, you don't ever get over, but you recover, and I guess you get past, like you deal with it, like you you don't get past it either, but you deal with the trauma, and it's a good way to deal because especially as a 12-year-old, that's like a terrible age for that to happen because you're so impressionable and so many things can go different, different directions. And yeah, glad, glad that you had that outlet.
SPEAKER_00And do you still live near the church? I do. I do. I still live in the same house.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I I still run that route at least once a week. Um, and running it during the summer is gorgeous. Like there's a beautiful park with a nice pond. I'll run to the church, run to the pond, sit by the pond, run back home. Depends on whatever I'm doing. But I run that route at least once a week. Oh, nice. What yeah, where do you live? East Brunswick, New Jersey.
SPEAKER_01Okay. All right. That makes sense then. Yeah, a familiar route that you run all the time is just something special. I think every runner has that route that you run it so many times. Like you know when something moves. You know, like it's a new bench that was put on the side of the road, right? Or they just cleared out some area of the trail or something's different, just small things that most people would never recognize. You know, it's your home on the trail, your home on the road, whatever it is. It's just a cool feeling. Like, don't get me wrong, I like exploring new trails, new routes. That's great. But your home route is is special.
SPEAKER_00There's nothing like it. And it's like it truly is like you build a connection with this weird, convoluted piece of suburban road, and you have a connection to it. And every time I run that route, I immediately go back to when I was a little kid and trying to figure out what was going on in my head. And it's again, it's just special.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that's awesome. Glad you get to still do it. And hopefully it has a lot of good memories there for you, not just the the bad ones. And a lot of good. A lot of good. That's awesome. So you so you grew up in in East Brunswick, New Jersey. How how did you get hooked? Because I know you from Laurel Highlands. Right. Um, where last time I saw you out there, you were at oh was that the Route 38 station?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, aid station. Was this when Will came in? Yeah. Yeah, so that was mile 46. Uh Trail Sisters. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. The Trail Sisters run that, doing a tremendous job. And that is also, I feel, where the maximum carnage of the race happens.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, always, every year.
SPEAKER_02Like Rob, it's a triage unit there. It's there's people, it's next year. If we if hopefully one of us runs the full one, but yeah, check out that aid station. It is pure carnage. And Abu, you were one of the best I've ever seen at an aid station of getting someone that's on the ropes off the ropes.
SPEAKER_00In the world of ultra running, like, that's what I love. And I think like I've ran every distance that you can think of, and I've pushed them, trained them, coached them, and ultra running. Uh, I was hanging out with a couple friends, and all my friends are runners or ultra runners, and I absolutely love it. Um, we were talking about like different sports, and it was like going to an ultra marathon is like witnessing humanity of the runners are battling through whatever adversity they're going to. They go like it's the saying, like you go to hell and back, hell and back, hell and back, and then you go to hell again, and then you finish. And witnessing that, and then seeing everybody together helping the volunteers, workers, collective runners, crews helping each other out. It's truly beautiful. And that's like humanity in its rawest form. So it's like aid station carnage is like it gets me fired up of like I love racing myself, I love pushing my limits, seeing what I'm made of. But being a part of the carnage and getting somebody off of that ropes, helping them get out of their personal hell in that moment fires me up to no desire to no end.
SPEAKER_01That's what you remember. You remember those moments, right? People that don't run, they're like, oh man, all those miles. Like, isn't that miserable? Like, well, when I think about it, I think about those moments and I think after the race. Like how cool it's gonna be to sit around, talk to your friends, others that went through, ran the race. It doesn't even have to be the same distance. And you talk about that one climb. You talk about that one person that just bit the dust and you had to help them up and they're covered in blood, and it seems awful, but it's just persevering through that, right? I mean, it's just such a great memory, even if at the time, it's really tough, you know.
SPEAKER_00A hundred percent. And it's like I have a cliche that I always like keep to myself, like my own mantras. It's like the struggle is the story. Uh again, like I love running, it's part of who I am. Like, whenever I'm struggling with something in my life, it's like, all right, this is just part of the story. In the middle of a race when I'm in my house, like, all right, this just is what it is, but it's going to be part of the story from this race. And that's the specialty of it. It's not the splits, it's not how strong you ran, your placement. Like, yeah, those things kind of matter depending on your value system, but it's the struggle in the stories at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, that's why I I like you know, the 50Ks and above. It's it's because of the struggles. Like it's gonna be hard, and you kind of gotta, you know, what do you what do you have? What can you what can you do when it hurts? Like it's it's a sport like no other. And yeah, just that might be my favorite aid station anyway, Rob. Of any race is yeah, it's it's brutal. There's it's bad. It's it's awesome. All in the same sentence. Bad and awesome, all in the same sentence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Races are made or lost there. And like the first 20 miles of Laurel.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was I was actually cursing you uh because I ran the fall classic. Because you were like, oh yeah, the trail's much easier after it really smooths out. It's much, much easier after this. So I go across, you know, I'm still moving really well. And I was like, oh, I I I can make a you know, I can I can really run here. And nah, it's just as rocky, just as just as miserable as it's all it's all relative, man.
SPEAKER_00It's Pennsylvania East Coast Trail. All right, it's like rocky technical hell. Just how much?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's payback though, Casey.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01That's payback a little bit for all the descriptions you've given other people. Yeah, I had an easy race and it's one of the hardest race ever. Oh, it's not technical at all. Nothing but rocks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I had it coming. Yeah, not gonna lie, I had it coming for sure. Yeah, but I was like, ah, Abu told me this was really runnable and easy. You lied to me. I didn't say all that. All downhill. In my mind, you said that.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, all downhill, right, Rob?
SPEAKER_01Never is.
SPEAKER_02You've competed in your number a number of races, right, Abu? Yeah. What are some races that you have done? Because I'm actually not I didn't look it up beforehand because we do minimal research here at the Hobby Jogger. I love it. Raw. Yeah, we just go raw, uncut, unfiltered. Well, some filtering and some cuts, but sweet.
SPEAKER_00Um, I did a bunch of halves, like that was like my entry point, it was like the 5k and half marathon when I first started running. Pretty normal, I think. Yeah, very normal, like running, like intro to road running uh trajectory. And I found a lot of success there. And then I ran my first marathon and I had a lot of things going on. I went into the race injury, I blew up terribly. Still to this day, the most painful race I've ever had was my first ever marathon.
SPEAKER_02How long ago was this?
SPEAKER_00Uh at least five years.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Five or six years now. I really banged up my knee, and this is when I just started Cairo school. Um, good timing. Good timing, great timing. So I got super burnt out from running. I was like, all right, chasing numbers isn't for me. I it got me hurt. I don't know if I really love this, so I took a big break, focused on school. And then during my clinical rotations, I would still like run for exercise. And then during my clinical rotations, I went to Long Island and I like impulsively signed up for a 10-miler um called the Tesla Hertz. Um, I actually now know the race director, uh Vinny. And wait, is his name Vinny?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, of course there's a race director from Long Island named Vinny. Yeah, the only guy I know from Long Island's name is Vinny.
SPEAKER_00So probably a couple of them out there, a lot of them. Um and I signed up for like the night, they had a daytime and a nighttime 10 mile. I was like, I'm not gonna do the daytime, let's do the nighttime, let's have some fun. And within the first 400 meters, I trip on like this little tree branch and eat, just eat it. I was like, oh no. Um and I remember like I learned how to power hike. That was the first time I power hiked. It's not walking, not walking. I remember I fell so many times, tripped. I just had a good, it was like the peak type two fun. And I was like, wow, this is the first time I had fun in a run in a long time, like pre-first marathon. And the funniest moment was two. Um, there were there's like a small segment like around like mile five, I think, with like a couple like tight switchbacks. I've never ran a switchback in my life, and I ran straight into a tree because I was too busy looking down because I fell so many times.
SPEAKER_02Not not many switchbacks needs Brunswick, I imagine.
SPEAKER_00No, it was my first time like running on a trail that wasn't like a gravel loop, yeah. Of like nice single track. Um, and I was hooked from from then on. Like, that was my intro into trail. And when I was there, they had a 50 to 150 mile option. So I'm running past like these people that are like slogging it because it's like beginning of night one. And I was like, what are you running? They're like the hundred miles. Like, you're nuts. And I knew about David Goggins, but I thought those people were like make believe, you know? Yeah, and they're not real. Since then, it was just like immediately hooked. I signed up for a 50k, and that was the Wawa Yanda Trail Fest, which Red Point and Dan owns, and that's how I connected everybody. I ran the 50k. That was a lot of fun. I did pretty well despite like butchering my nutrition numbers. I forgot to carry a zero when calculating my sodium and just consumed way too much salt. Um, but I did pretty well. I did third there, so like a nice local race, and then he had his NYC trail mix and he sent out an email asking for volunteers. I was like, Yeah, this was super fun. I'll volunteer. I spent all day there from like race start to packing up the trailers, and I connected with the whole Red Point crew, and Mariana convinced me to sign up for Oral Highlands. I signed up for it right away. Thankfully, I signed up before I knew what I was getting into. Which version? The 70.
SPEAKER_02Oh, she just talked you right into the 70.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, nice, good friend, good friend, yeah. The best. Yeah, the pool right there. Exactly. I just and I think that's like the best way to do it, or one of the best ways. Like, dive in, but be intelligent. And like at this, at that point, I had seven, seven-ish years of coaching experience. I've been in the training fitness industry. I'm a clinician, like I understand health, I know how to train, so I was very confident in it. And so I trained, and I finished in like 17 low. And I just had a fun time. And I remember I got beat to smithereens at that race.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's like stepping into a boxing ring.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And like that's what like hooked me into like ultras and like racing as a whole, of like boxing is was like my first love of like true competitive sports. And the anxiety and the adrenaline you get stepping in the ring before the bell rings, stepping on a starting line of a race is the closest thing to that that I've ever felt. And the more experience I got, it's actually like a bigger high. Because in a fight, the opponent is obvious, it's whoever's right in front of you. That person wants to hurt you, you have to hurt them. When hit, don't get hit. But in a race, it's whatever the hell you want it to be. Like there's races I show up and I was like, Yeah, I'm just gonna party pace this, have a great time. There's races where I'm like, I'm gonna push the absolute limit and see how what I'm made of. Yeah, you make the rules, and like that's why it makes running like truly special. Um, so since then, um, like a couple local 50ks I just did, or not adjusted, it's July now. Um, I did the Vermont 100K. Um, yeah, you guys went up there. Yeah, yeah. That was uh my birthday party. Nice. Um, I did pretty well there. I went 1150.
SPEAKER_02That's I I don't I've run up in Vermont. I don't know what the terrain was like that you ran on, but it was pretty tough some of the trails we ran up there.
SPEAKER_00Like not a lot of trails. It was a lot of like jeep road, okay, loose gravel. Um, a couple trails, like horse trails, some single track. Um, I want to say like 15, maybe 20 miles worth. Actually, most of closer to like 20 miles worth of trail. Um had a really good time there, and now it's like I don't know what race to do. Or I have a couple options for 2026. Um, and 100 is definitely on the cards there. What are you thinking about done? Yeah, so from what you messaged me about like tendons, Vermont was supposed to be my first 100 miler, and then I banged, I banged up my Achilles um early this year, and so I dropped to the 100k um just because I didn't have enough time to after like I rehab my Achilles to train for a hundred miler. So I was like, all right, I'll just drop to the 100k. I know I can do that pretty confidently. Yeah, so yeah, definitely a hundred miles. Um I got saddles, run rabbit, run, and uh eastern states is kind of like the wild card between the three.
SPEAKER_02That's a that's a brutal one. That's a tough one. Eastern states is a brutal one. I that's it has more climbing than like UTMB, I think, right? I think it has like 20-ish K. I don't think as much as UTMB though. I'll have to look it up and see what it is. But I know it's a lot. It's not yeah, it's not easy. I yeah, yeah, super, super tough race. It's in June. Is it in June? No, later. Is it so it's hot, it's a hot, humid, yeah, middle of Pennsylvania rainforest. Right. Yeah, so oh man, that'd be awesome.
SPEAKER_00I hope you run eastern states and and obviously I entered Western States with my two whole lottery tickets, so who knows? It's two more than I put in. Yes, yeah. So it's Western States if I get in somehow by God's grace, or one of those three. I gotta figure that out by like end of the month.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you have to start entering these things now because everyone wants to do them. I know like world's end, another PA race. Yeah, you gotta be right on the entry if you want to do it, and then that's your you know, Laurel Highlands that you volunteer at or or work at, I'm not sure. Uh whichever one. Uh yeah, you gotta you gotta you gotta be on the spot to enter to get in one of the three entry days there. So yeah, a lot of these races are tough, tough to get into. You gotta pick and pick and choose.
SPEAKER_00Saddles would be pretty cool, rabbit as well. Yeah, both of them. I think like a big thing with me is like there's so many races, do it. I want it to be like one somewhere cool, somewhere that something that like means something to me. Like Vermont was really cool. I don't know how much you guys understand of the history around that race, but it's the whole race started as a fundraiser for Vermont Adaptive ski and uh ski and sport. It's just a nonprofit that does um access for like outdoor and extra uh physical activity for physically and mentally disabled children and adults. That's what the whole race is for, is just fundraising for them.
SPEAKER_02That's really cool. That's I'm and I I really like to hear when like when races do something or anyone does something like that. That right you didn't need to do it, but you did it. And I I appreciate you doing that for sure. And that's yeah, it's always good to hear and happy to hear that. So especially with you said it's for special needs, right? Yeah, physically and cognitive disabled children and adult. Got it, yeah. I was uh growing up, I was I I I might say the wrong thing here, but I was in the first class, we had a Down syndrome kid with us, and I believe we were the first class that where he went through public school rather through the private school. So it was really in I don't want to say interesting. It was really cool like being a part of that, and like we were like a maybe a pilot program for it, but he was just such a cool dude, and uh he still lives in the same hometown I grew up in, and you know, w wish him wish him all the best. And it was, yeah, it was just an eye-opening experience to to be a part of that as a child growing up. And so I always look at those things a little bit differently, I guess, than someone that didn't experience that growing up so close to uh someone with special needs. And yeah, so I'm I'm glad to hear that about the Vermont race.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that's like my big thing. If I'm gonna run a race, it's gonna mean something to me and be somewhere cool because I'm not gonna drag my friends to go somewhere lame.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, saddles. I know uh Jeremy Pope and Steve Capes, both former guests of the hobby jogger. They were they've both run saddles. I want to say saddles 50. Does that sound right, Rob?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, saddles 50.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Jeremy won or took second, maybe, I think. Yeah, I don't know. I'd have to look at, you know, actually do the research there, but yeah, one of those. He was he did well, I should say. So yeah, that's a cool race. I like Arizona. Uh I am currently signed up for the Black Canyons 100k.
SPEAKER_00So nice. That's on the list as well. But I need to I th I told myself 2026 is the year I do 100.
SPEAKER_02Nice, nice. Yeah, I look forward to seeing. I hope it's east. I I'll come out and crew you for eastern states because I'd like to see that course. It's you might get the call. Yeah, it's pretty cool out there. I like anytime I get to go out to PA out into the to the wilderness of PA, I'm happy. So yeah, yeah. Love the area and yeah, look forward to to seeing what you do out there. And even run rabbit run. I'd I'd like to run that 50 mile. I know we've had a couple local guys run it, and that's a cool race out in Colorado. The uh I I like how they do that. It's a cool race, the setup where you have the hares and the tortoises, and they send out the tortoises, what, a few hours, maybe four hours? I think something like that. Yeah. Something like that. And then off go the fast people, so there's more more people going through at the same time, which is which is a pretty cool concept. I like when races do something, something like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's fun to mix it up a little bit. You mentioned you were uh doing some crewing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It's been a while since you ran a race, but you're doing since July, I've crewed at least one race a month. Um what I'm like this is uh I thought last week uh my buddy uh Vin he did ran uh the Across Florida 200. Um that was the first 200 I ever crewed. Crazy experience. Um, how much sleep did you get? Actually, a good amount. I will say, from a sleep deprivation standpoint, 200s easier than hundreds. Just from sleep, but sacrificing the better half of a week for a race, eh, kind of meh. Um, but I'm really grateful of like, and that's the other thing that I love about running and like what running's given me is the community around it. Of I've met some of the best people and like true now, like lifelong friends and brothers and sisters, and all of us are just immersed in the life, and somebody's always running a race, and we just take turns crewing each other. Um, so yeah, like the sense of community and like the crew I've built and like developed over the past couple years, it's truly something special. It's trashes my sleep schedule, but I absolutely love it.
SPEAKER_01All right. Well, let's unpack that 200 miler a little bit. Like, how many days like were you in a van pulling off the side of the road sleeping? I mean, what was it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so for a first it was their first year doing it and it was pretty like well ish from there was definitely like a lot of like first year stuff going on with it, but it was set up just like regular crewed uncrewed aid stations. Um, we rented a minivan and it was four people crewing. Um, me, two of his buddies, and his fiance. Um, and we kind of just like ran on shifts pretty much of past mile 50. So for the last 150 miles, you were allowed a pacer. Um, one of us was always pacing, so it was always three people in the van at one time. One person's sleeping, another one's just like keeping an eye if he's close or not. And he wakes, he comes back, we all organically wake up, crew him, and then away we go. A lot slower paced. Um, he was the first person to like run a true 200 out of everybody in our friend group. So a lot of lessons learned of like the importance of sleep, the importance of consistency, of fast. Stations not as important compared to like a 100k or a 100 miler, um, but consistency and like proactive problem solving, which we definitely did good. Um, but like the sleep element is just like a huge wild card and like the consistency. Um, but he did well. He finished in like 64 hours. 64.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's wild.
SPEAKER_00What mile did he start hallucinating? That's what I want to know. So I he's one of the like he's one of the best, like well-rounded runners, and especially like in the ultras. I um out of my friend group. Uh what's his name? Uh Vincent Kennedy. Um, he would be great on this podcast. He's he's a great time. Vinny from Long Island? No, different Vinny. He's from South Jersey, so still one of them. Yeah, yeah. Shocked, shocked. Right. Let's it's the tri-state area. There's always there's always a Vinny somewhere um in any story. And he does he just does he struggles with sleep deprivation. So that's just like something that we know that he struggles with. So we were always like staying atop on sleep. So we were sleeping a ton at eight stations. Um, that's just like his weakness. Um, so we were sleeping a decent bitway. He was hallucinating, like seeing some like figures and like faces and trees. Um, but whenever it got to like that point where he's getting visual disturbances, we just slept right away.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, when you're seeing cactuses going across Florida, it's probably not a good sign. Yeah. Yeah, and I I remember you oh uh who's someone posted something from that. I uh trying to think of it. Probably him or his fiancee. Okay, yeah, I saw something, but yeah, it's such a cool yeah, there's just so many different races that I I never heard of that. Have you heard of the 200 across Florida? I didn't even know Florida was 200 miles across.
SPEAKER_00It was their first year doing it. Okay. Um, what was it? Warrior races, like they do a bunch of like the adventure races everywhere.
SPEAKER_02That's an adventure. That's that's for sure. What month was it? Last week. Last week, okay. I missed that. So it wasn't well, it could still be pretty hot down in Florida. It's still humid.
SPEAKER_00It got it was really cold in the morning, really cold at night. Classic Florida weather during the day, like 70s, high 60s. So it was like a lot of like undulating temperature, which like threw a different element into the race.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know I remember you uh you were part of Mariana's crew for Western States as well. Yeah, that was a fun time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that that's where we first met, actually. Yeah, yeah. That was when we first met.
SPEAKER_02And uh yeah, because you you had because you had to break it up into two crews out there, and you had the first aid station, right?
SPEAKER_00We had a second, but we accidentally drove to the first one and sprinted through the valleys to uh what is it, dusty? Yeah, dusty. Um, yeah, that was a fun uh crew adventure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because I was waiting for you there to give you something for I can't remember what it was.
SPEAKER_00And it was uh it was her bucket hat. Yeah, yeah, it was like the big thing all race that she cared about. And we never got to the bucket hat until afterwards.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we got to the bucket hat the next day. Perfect timing. Yeah, it is fun to crew, like that. Yeah, I I I did it this past summer and yeah, it was fun. I had a good time, and it's just cool to be part of it. You're part of it, Rob, you were there, yeah. We the video will eventually come out that we that we filmed. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we're working on it, it'll come out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but no, I had a good time doing it, trying to get them off the ropes and keeping them, keeping them out there moving and and yeah, it's fun. Yeah, it's just a different and it's completely unique, I guess, other than to like NASCAR of being a part of the sport, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 100%. It's like it's a team effort of like same thing with like efficient aid stations. Of like if you have a crew that can problem solve fast, read, and have good chemistry with the runner, things go well. If things aren't going well, things get forgotten, or just spending too much time at an A station, things don't go so well. Um, and I really like the team element around like crewing, and too, it's fun of like races are special for the runner, and like as a crewing, I get to be a part of that specialty. So it's nice. Plus, you get a sneak peek at the race.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's it. Okay, would I want to run this? Like, let me crew somebody first and just see how they look at like you know, mile 30 and then mile 60 and mile nine. Uh yeah, he's a better running runner than I am. I think I'll tap out. That's too much for me right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's yeah, it's true. You can either make you really want to do the race or really not want to do the race. Yeah, you know, you see the line of chairs up at the aid station and they're all filled, and it's it's it's tough tough to want to go out and do that sometimes after that, I guess. So but now, Abu, one thing I wanted to talk to you about. We're gonna shift gears here a little bit. When it comes to training, you're a coach. Uh I I think I'm a little bit ahead on the next big thing in running. Uh, I know I I messaged you a little bit about it. Rob, this is gonna come as a complete shock to you, but I've been doing a little bit of research on this. Don't believe it. I know, I know. I told you you'd be shocked, but I and I I can't lie, I got it from the strength running podcast, Jason Fitzgerald. Uh, he did an episode on isometric and pliometric. I we'll call the isometrics holds because it's not a stretch and it's not a lift, and then plyometrics, but I I I wanted to add a little bit of this in here because I I do think we're early, Rob, to this. What is going to become a trend? Abu, are we early?
SPEAKER_00Uh there's been enough literature now that heavy isometrics and eccentrics are now a trend.
SPEAKER_01Damn. Maybe not for the hybrid jogger, though.
SPEAKER_00Like it hasn't hit our world yet. In the world, how do we want to go about this? Of just tendon health as a whole or isometrics and eccentrics specifically?
SPEAKER_02Are eccentrics essentially polymetrics?
SPEAKER_00No, they're different.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Well, let's let's define what an isometric hold. We call it a hold.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so isometric means just holding one position, nothing is moving.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Ecentric is a tissue is lengthening under load.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Okay. A pliometric is a tissue going through its full stretch and shortening cycle. There's a bunch of different tiers within the plyometric, but we're going to keep it kind of simple and not get like too crazy esoteric with it. Those are like the three like main things, and there's other like subtiers in each and every one of them. But tendons as a whole, and this is like probably I love tendons. Um, it's my favorite thing to treat. And I think it's like one of those like neglected things in like people's training and also like in a lot of people's rehab for people that are dealing with tendons, um, are a couple of these things that we're probably going to talk about.
SPEAKER_02Especially the heel. I feel like a lot of people have issues in the heel.
SPEAKER_00Correct. So, like an Achilles tendinopathy, which is a pissed-off Achilles tendon, is one of the most common injuries for runners to deal with at any point, varying degrees and grades. Um, but I'm sure all of us at some point after a long run or any type of run the next day or later that day is like, uh, my heel's a little weird. Right now. Oh, great. We get to use you as a case. Very, very common. And why I think it feels like isometrics and eccentrics for tendon health of like isometric calf raises, eccentric calf raise, and now plyometrics, which is really exciting, is becoming a trend. Is tendon health is so important. And in running the calf complex, so everywhere, all the muscles from your ankle to your knee, they go anywhere from six to twelve times your body weight and forces when you walk, run, or jog. I think jogging is like six times your body weight, sprinting is like 12, running is like a weird six to eight.
SPEAKER_02So that's like pounds that we're putting on to that tendon, the load that we're asking that tendon to withstand, correct?
SPEAKER_00Correct. In the most myopic way possible to explain that. Yeah. So every time your foot hits the ground, gravity, once your foot leaves the ground, wants to yank you back down, you accelerate, you hit the ground, you have to deal with those forces and produce enough force to keep pushing you forward. And you do that tens of thousands of times. Yeah. Um, and it's like these small, like rapid impulses, and like that's what a plant metric to some degree is. Okay, we'll keep it simple. But in running, we our legs deal with a lot of forces. We've all subjectively felt it. We have to, and people get injured when they either do too much too soon after doing too little too long. Okay, and their body is not prepared to handle the forces that's being imposed on them. Okay.
SPEAKER_02That makes sense. That's now that I'm thinking about it, that's about when I get injured, right, Rob?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, I've heard it in uh you know kickboxing for years, right? That's why the Thai guys go out and they kick the trees. Yep, trying to build that up, a lot of little micro fractures, and then it just gets tougher and tougher and tougher.
SPEAKER_00Correct. That's training. They're training their bones. And you kind of incur the same thing with running, strength training, and all of this. And this is where like having a well-pro rounded program is very important because if your running program has proper progressions and D loads, your strength training is consistently putting you under enough load to adapt your muscles, tendons, and bones as well, because stress fractures are very common in runners. We're gonna keep that away because that's like a whole nother subject I can talk an hour about. Um, but specifically to tendons, that's like the main thing. And like if you look at like elite runners, like the Kipchogis of the world, the Wamsleys of the world, and one of the things that like got me really obsessed with like running science was um, I saw a video of uh Wamsey, I forgot which Western States finish, but when he was coming into the track, he looked like he just started of just so bouncy and fluid. And that is like there's a lot of things that makes him, like, in my opinion, the GOAT. But the that athlete being able to preserve that elasticity and stiffness that deep into a race shines. Whereas your back of packers, as the race goes on, their legs get heavier, they're spending more time on the ground, they start to get that shuffle, they've lost that stiffness and elasticity. They have to spend more time on the ground because they need to produce more force rather than rapidly.
SPEAKER_02So, I mean, other than the obvious of genes, what do we do to help us sustain elasticity throughout a race? What are like a couple basic like I know I started isometrics this past week. I did a one-legged wall sit, and I forgot how hard it is. It is very difficult to do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so this is where the isometrics, eccentrics, and plyometrics come into play. Excuse me, sorry. Um, isometrics and eccentrics are the lowest hanging fruit. Um, when it comes to tendons, and we're gonna put this in the context of a healthy, un otherwise uninjured athlete, somebody that just wants to get their running better. Because once you throw pain and like disorganized tendons, there's a whole nother rabbit hole you can go down. For the person that just wants to make their running better and feel better, this is what it's about. There's two acronyms to remember, or really one for the uninjured athlete. Tendons love tension, that's their only job is to stay tight, attach the muscle to the bone. When tendons lose their tension, they become disorganized and flaccid. Okay, it's like a rubber band. You have a squishy rubber band, you have to pull it really far to snap it far. But if you have a taut rubber band, you only have to stretch it a little bit and it has a lot of energy in it. Once you let go, it just flies away. That's our how our tendons are meant to behave. That makes sense. We want to preserve and promote those qualities. That's where isometrics come from because they're very easy to load heavy, and you do that in different joint positions. So, like the easiest way to start is with the ankle. There's two ranges of motions we'll just highlight planner flexion, which is gas pedal, toes down, dorsi flexion, which is toes to nose.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that makes sense because you're gonna stand on your toe. What do you call it? Calf raise? Yeah. Okay, and then what do you do for the other way?
SPEAKER_00You just let it sink. Okay. Okay, so you have your whole, like this is my foot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It goes like this, right? Got it. So you'll stand on a stair and let it be.
SPEAKER_00This is the stretch position, toes to nose, and then you press and you stay in that lengthened position because that's max tension. Got it. And then you do that in all planes. The easiest way to introduce load is through the shortened position. So for somebody that's new to heavy loading, uh, I'll start them at the loaded position. But the main overarching thing is tendons love tension. We have to load it and we have to load it heavy. And this is something I see like on Instagram that grinds my gears of like strength training for runners. And it's just like a bunch of lightweight heel float exercises. Great, that's good for your balance, but you're not introducing any meaningful load. Again, we're gonna use the simple eight times body weight. I'm not the heaviest guy in the world. I'm 100 when I'm racing, like I like to sit around like 165, but I still like 1500-ish pounds. Yeah. Every step I take. Doing a calf raise squat with a 10-pound kettlebell is not going to move the needle.
SPEAKER_02So I want to work on loading the tendon, and I need to do it at what do I need to be careful of when loading? Like, start like I'm just starting out with isometrics.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. So we'll we'll go through like if you're coming to me and um this is perfect for our case. If your tendon is sensitive, we my job is to one get rid of the pain, but if you're not in pain, how can I load this comfortably? And again, most people get injured after by doing too much too soon after doing too much too little for too long. Is what's the easiest way I can introduce load without getting flared up? For the otherwise healthy individual, it's pretty easy. Just get on the calf raise machine, go to absolute failure. And by absolute failure, I mean no matter how hard you try, the weight is not moving. Okay, okay, just pump out calf raises. Okay. Now, when you understand what high intensity lifting feels like, we can introduce the isometric. And with the isometric, you can load very, very heavy compared to doing like a regular calf raise. That's like the best value of the isometric.
SPEAKER_02Got it. So do I do I just go to the gym, load up the barbell like a squat and toe raise?
SPEAKER_00You can do that. Yep, you can do heel raises. Um, if your gym has a calf raise machine, that's the easiest way. There's a bunch of other like calf raise setups, but whatever the easiest setup where balance isn't like the main limiter that you can load is what I would go with. So if you have a standing calf raise machine or a seated calf raise machine, go ahead, do a full set of failure. If you get to like 20 reps and then you fail, great. Add 25s or something, and you'll feel it. And with the isometrics, I found like 15 to 30 seconds the sweet spot of like those last five seconds, you are fighting for your life to not let that weight fall and keep that weight in place.
SPEAKER_02Dude, I did a set of wall sits. I was fighting for my life. The the thing I read, I think Grok told me, like set it up for me. It's like, oh, just do 30 to 45, 15 seconds in, Rob, I was dying. And I I'm I work out regularly, I could squat pretty good for my body weight, and I was dying. Like I was like, what my legs were shaking afterwards. Yeah, I was like, holy shit, I could see how someone could like I could see how this could greatly improve, like like you said, the tension. I didn't know what it was. I just was like, oh wow, it felt like I did something. So all right, cool. So I'm gonna all right, gonna put the calf raises and the calf, we'll call them calf sinks, Rob.
SPEAKER_01Well, you just need to get to the point where you can take the chair out of the office and just sit on the wall. Yeah. You don't need a chair anymore.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna get there for a while, man. I got some work to do.
SPEAKER_00It's a goal. So that's the isometric. The eccentric, it still follows the same principle. They're just different strategies to load the tendon and introduce high degrees of tension and load. The eccentric, very easy. You load up your bar. I like doing like a single leg eccentric. You load up the bar, you go two legs up, take one leg off, and slowly five seconds on the way down. Your calves will be screaming very, very quickly. But again, tendons love tension. The whole game around tendon health is how much load can I introduce to promote stiffness and elasticity? The isometrics and eccentrics, great way to establish tension and load, promote some stiffness. The elasticity comes from the plyometric. And this is where I have very strong opinions. And when we were going back and forth, like this has been my main thing I've been like continuing my education on the past three or so months. Um, just with where like my my caseload is at when like they're all individual rehab classes and like guinea pig it myself. A lot of people mess up their plymetrics.
SPEAKER_02It seems like this is something you need to be careful of from my research, which Rob knows it's not very good. Because you can get injured for overdoing plymetrics very easily. Like it is very easy when, and I actually didn't do it this week because I just didn't feel that great. And I was like, I don't want to start out this week doing it. But I it seems like you really need to ease into the plyometrics, is as simple as they might seem, but it seems like there's a lot of warnings. So that's I'll let you explain why that is.
SPEAKER_00I think it's literally just like running. Of the beauty of running is it's free, you just have to go outside. But the trap is it's free, so you can very easily overdo it and you're banged up. Same thing with plyometrics. So plyometrics, we're only gonna look at like two types of plyometrics that of like the rapid bouncing. Okay, there's other tiers like I would use to like introduce to somebody, but that rapid bouncing is running, that is like max tension, max elasticity, high volume, high intensity, high volume. That's like a recipe for load management disaster of doing too much too soon. So dosage matters.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think this information is gonna be new for a lot of runners. Because I mean, am I going too fast? Like I can like No, not at all. I mean, it's fantastic. I I just I know a lot of runners that before they'll go out for a run, they're feeling stiff, they're feeling a little bit of pain, and they think just you know, stretching, stretching out their their arch, stretching out their heel a little bit, like that's what they need to do every single time, and they're gonna notice significant change, but it it sounds like they're not. They can continue to do this, and it's just a little bit of weakness there.
SPEAKER_00Right. And like that feeling of tightness, I don't, I'm not gonna blindly diagnose people, but that feeling of tightness, like, oh, I need to stretch this, is actually like your body's signaling, I need stimulation, especially like if it's coming from a tendon. It's either it's swelling that needs to get drained, or it's it needs to get introduced tension. Okay, which now the factor comes into how can I introduce load without incur in um incurring pain. So to the plymetric, dosage matters. If you're somebody that's never done a plymetric, never jumped in their or skipped in their life, skipping is a plymetric. I like to do one to two times a week for five to ten minutes. Ten minutes is pushing it.
SPEAKER_02Got it. So, so very little makes a big difference. And because I know, like Rob, we know exactly what people are gonna do when they hear this. Like it improves my running. So I'm gonna put in a 45-minute session.
SPEAKER_00Do not do that unless you are a professional high jumper.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like because I just know I just know how people like, oh, if I Abu said to do 10 minutes, so if I do 45 minutes, I'm gonna be really fast.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's good business, like I would end up with like a couple new clients, but it's very unethical. Don't not do that. Um, so less is more, literally, just like running. Less is more. Okay, you can run yourself into the ground and be tough, or week over week you can stack volume and feel fresh and actually gain fitness. It's the same exact thing. I've restructured my personal strength and conditioning. So I lift four times a week. Um, and each lift I do anywhere from five to ten minutes of plymetric activities of varying levels. I feel a difference when I run now. Like I recorded myself the other day, just like curious. My running mechanics have changed, and I didn't even try to like alter the way I run. Just from the adaptations I've developed of five minutes a day. Do not do that to start five to ten minutes two times a week.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's very good of because I know I and I and like Rob said, like this is gonna be a lot of new information for people because if and and obviously Jason Fitzgerald's very tuned in, much like you are, to what's going on. But that was the first time I had heard about it. So I th I was like, I think it's gonna be, and then I started reading about the injuries, shin splints, etc., from just so much force and plyometrics going through, like box jumps to what's it called? It you jump, you get on the box, you fall off the box, and then you jump.
SPEAKER_00Like those are like what's called ping tier. And like when I said like there's varying degrees of plyometrics, those are ping tier that's low ground contact time, so you're not spending a lot of time on the floor, high forces. That's like as high stimulating and high load as you can possibly get. That's the upper echelon that I really don't think most people need, to be honest with you, especially if they're brand new. All they need uh is understanding that stretch shortening cycle. And this is where like I think like the most practical stuff is is the most simple, and like um, I have a post that I need, like a story grant I need to make and I'll probably make it after this. Is the most commonly prescribed and the most commonly bastardized exercise for runners is the pogo, where you're just bouncing on two legs.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That was one of the suggestions uh was the pogo. Right. It's very common because it's like very close to running and it's pretty easy to do. Just bounce on your ankles.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But you're flexing, you're just flexing the the ankle, right? Yep.
SPEAKER_00Knee stiff or straight and just the easiest way to do it is just bounce on the balls of your feet, just get the rhythm down. Learn what it's like to feel bouncy and feeling that stretch shortening cycle. Okay. And then what people are going to do, and this is where I say it gets bastardized, is after they learn that initial, like nice rhythmic bouncing, they stay on their tippy toes and they never fully stretch their Achilles. Again, tendons love tension. We need to maximally stretch and shorten. That's how tendons respond, they're rubber bands, okay.
SPEAKER_02I guess if you think of it as similarly to like a bicep curl, you want to get the full range bingo. That's what we're trying with the hopping. We're we want the full range, the full flexion of, which I guess controls the tendon, but that's what we're looking for. Okay. That makes that makes sense. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So after people like when your coach, your PT Cairo is like, oh, you're dealing with an ankle injury, do some pogos, and you get like that flaccid, soft rhythmic bouncing, that's step one. Okay, and that's where most people start and end their plyometric journey. And like you're leaving a lot of gains on the table. What comes next is just like running, and like I like to use uphill running as an example, but we'll get there in a second. It's it has to start becoming aggressive and violent. Okay, so back to the rhythm. What you'll hear with people when they start poke like pogos or plymetrics is very soft. Okay, but they have the rhythm down. Then what you want to start doing, and this is how you increase the load, is you want to start attacking the floor. So I'm trying to smack the floor, and what you'll hear is like a rhythmic pop pop. That's like the second I hit that floor, I'm already producing force. My Achilles is stretched and it just rebounds. And by the time I get back to the ground, it's stretched again and ready to go. There's a genetic component to it of like the Jim Wamsey Kachogis of the world, they're highly elastic and they'll just do it forever. There's also a trainable quality to it. It's going to feel really awkward for people that are new to it, but if you practice it, you will get better. And if you dose it properly, you will also get better and you'll feel a difference. And a little goes a very long way. So jumping rope, yay or nay? Yes, jumping rope, another plyometric. Kind of the same thing. It's a great way, it's exactly a pogo. And you have the external constraint of the rope of if I lose my rhythm, I stop, I hit the rope. That's a like I love that as an entry point as well. Or I'll just have people bounce on like the balls of their feet just to feel the rhythm, give them a jump rope, and then after they get the feel of that, then I'll like just literally tell them it's start attacking the floor, see what happens. And it'll like they'll start to feel like they're stuck to the ground, but you practice it a little bit, five to ten minutes, two times a week. Then you have like this nice fun bouncing to it. And then you can start getting crazy with like deep knee bend, deep Achilles bend, jumping off of boxes, single leg side to side, da da da da.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, and that makes sense. Like, because Jim does warm up with the jump rope before runs. I I've I don't think I said who was who it was in the story that did it, but yeah, we he came out to run with us in Ohio and gets out of my car and he's jumping rope. I was like, dude, what are you doing? We don't warm up here, like yeah, I'm gonna have a beer, and he's like, No, I warm up, and yeah, he's jumped. That I mean, obviously, he's a professional athlete, so yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00That's like the perfect example of a low-tier, light tier or light tier plyometric, yeah, which is high amplitude, low force, and it's just a good way to prime the system.
SPEAKER_01Ordering a jump rope now, Rob. Yep, I'm digging mine out of the out of the garage. I know I have one in there somewhere. So it's in a box, it's coming out tomorrow.
SPEAKER_02I need one of those ones they had in school with the the old plastic ones. Yeah, yeah, that's that's great knowledge, Abu. Thank you, thank you for that. That's that was one of the reasons I wanted to have you on, other than you're a super cool dude and great story. I guess we could have we probably could have just done a full hour on isometrics, eccentrics, and plyometrics, Rob. Yeah, I I uh I like tendons. It's I love them. They're so much fun. And and now that I've heard you explain it, it makes perfect sense to me. And that it's why I added it in. It's you know, added strength training last year, uh speed work I've added in, and now going to add in this.
SPEAKER_00If I could just get the diet part right, Rob. It's the hardest thing. Like, that's the biggest reason why I took um the last half of this year as an offseason is to like get my diet in check.
SPEAKER_01Okay, you've already got it. You've already got it. I mean, cheeseburgers, beer, check. What else is there? It's a professional athlete right there.
SPEAKER_02I basically like a professional athlete at all times. Yeah, yeah. I have a jumbo-sized bucket of chicken nuggets in the freezer right now. So it's my snack. Yeah. But Abu, thank you so much. We'll probably have to do another episode on this, I imagine, because I think we could probably,
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SPEAKER_02yeah, we probably will.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, I'm down for a two-parter. And we can get like deep into the weeds of like the injured tendon or whatever you guys want. I love this stuff, so I'll chew your ear off all day.
SPEAKER_02I I appreciate you sharing a little starter for our audience here on the isometrics. I learned today, Rob, what isometric and eccentric the difference is.
SPEAKER_01So it's always good to learn.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00If you're not learning, you're not growing. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01Where can our listeners find you?
SPEAKER_00Uh, best way is through Instagram at Abu A B U underscore
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SPEAKER_00Gergis, G U E R G E S. Um, for the people that are local to the tri state area. I work at Evo Health and Performance in Freehold, New Jersey.