The Hobby Jogger Podcast
Welcome to The Hobby Jogger Podcast, where elite athletes and ham-and-eggers lace up their stories. We explore the common ground that running creates from the world-class runner to the hobbyist hitting the pavement, trail or treadmill. Expect a blend of inspiration, laughter and the shared joy that makes every step count. Join us on this journey, where every run is a story worth sharing.
The Hobby Jogger Podcast
E50 | From Dietitian to Running Coach: Part One with Rachel Laymon
Rachel Lehman transforms our understanding of running fundamentals in this captivating conversation about the science and art behind effective training. From her remarkable journey starting as a reluctant 5K participant in Florida to becoming a respected ultramarathon coach and founder of Run Well Be Well, Rachel brings authenticity and expertise to every topic.
The discussion takes us through the real science of heat adaptation, where Rachel challenges popular notions with her evidence-based perspective: "I'm convinced there's no substitute for actually going out and running on a hot day." Her breakdown of why humidity presents unique physiological challenges resonates with runners struggling through summer training.
When addressing technology's role in training, Rachel offers the refreshing reminder that "you're the human wearing the gadget," encouraging runners to develop body awareness alongside technological tools. Her practical approach to heart rate training cuts through confusion with actionable advice, including the brilliant tip: "If you can breathe out longer than you can breathe in, you're probably at a good easy pace."
Perhaps most valuable is Rachel's perspective on nutrition – the area where she sees the biggest improvement opportunity for ultrarunners. "We live in a low-carb kind of world. Carbs are demonized outside the running community," she explains, before detailing how proper fueling can transform performance beyond what most runners imagine possible.
Throughout the conversation, Rachel balances scientific knowledge with real-world application, making complex training concepts accessible for runners at any level. Whether you're struggling with summer heat, confused about heart rate zones, or wondering why you bonk at mile 20, this episode delivers insights that will immediately improve your running experience. Listen now to transform your approach to training and racing!
Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Hobby Jogger. I am the only host today, casey Koza. I am joined by a local running coach, dietitian, certified personal trainer. I think I hit them all. Rachel Lehman, lehman, or is that how you say it? I should have asked you first.
Speaker 2:Yep, you got it yes.
Speaker 1:I was pretty sure. I'm not always sure and sometimes I don't ask beforehand and I get the name wrong. So, yeah, that's that is. That is good, and you're local to me, correct, Rachel? You're here in the Akron area.
Speaker 2:Yep Sure I am. I'm over in Portage lakes area.
Speaker 1:Portage lakes. Are you a member of the uh, the PLX Running Club?
Speaker 2:I am, yes, yeah, for many years, yeah, I've been running with the PLX Running Club. They really contributed to a lot of my running, I would say success and just everything I've done with the sport. So, yeah, they've been a great group for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've only heard good things. I haven't made it out to any of their events. I know they host a couple races and I think we have a friend that helps run the club or something. I don't know. But I need to make it out there to the PLX running club. Like I said, I've only heard good things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right, they do put on a handful of races, nicole does. Yeah, you're right, they do put on a handful of races, nicole does, and every year the Clock Tower 5K Adult Track Night totally different local event. And then we've got Loop the Lake in the fall as well, and she does a bit with cross-country stuff too. So I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things, but then, yeah, we finish off the year with Loop the Lake Ultra, so lots of fun there at the end of the year. That's always a good one.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've heard of that. What is it? Loop Lake Ultra.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's an ultra marathon. She's got a lot of different distances you can choose from. So it's great because then everyone can participate, whether they want to run six hours or a relay. So she's got 25K, 50k and a six hour option. And then, yeah, there's a relay option too, so you can really break up that relay however you wanted to, which is great because it's like super low stress. Just kind of build your team and decide who's going to do how many loops and you can kind of trade off as you want to. Or you can hop in on that 50K six-hour and just be out there for the whole day, and it's so much fun. I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, looking at it here, it looks pretty sweet. It's, yeah, november 8th 2025. So if you're looking for a race, that's pretty cool. Porter's Lakes Running Club yeah, I, yeah. I can't believe I haven't had someone on from from there, cause I, everywhere I go, I see like run PLX stickers and whatnot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:So you're pretty entrenched in our local running, I guess, scene here. Rachel, how did you start out? What was your crux into running here?
Speaker 2:Rachel, how did you start out? What was your crux into running? Oh, yeah, so it's so cool hearing everybody's stories and how people get into running. Um, so I'm, I'm from Ohio, I'm born and raised here.
Speaker 2:After I graduated college I went to school and become a dietitian, graduated, worked for a year and my now husband but at the time we were just dating no kids we decided to move to Florida for a couple of years, kind of just for fun Right, why not, you get an opportunity to do that? And we could do that with his job. So we lived in Florida for a few years and I met just the greatest group of people down there. I had a great trainer who put on group classes in our apartment building. We just all formed like such a tight bond. And within those classes, you know the conversations start like oh, we should do this 5K and I'm like, no way, I'll definitely die, I can't do that. So you know, those conversations kind of keep continuing on. And then when I was working I worked at Boca Raton Regional Hospital and literally every dietician I worked with was a runner. They would be leaving work, going running eight miles after work and I would just be astounded. I can't believe you did that. You know I feel like we all have similar stories like that at some point. So between my coworkers and my apartment living situation, with those classes, inevitably signed up for a 5k, then signed up for a half and, you know, snowballed into all that.
Speaker 2:Then, in the midst of training for my first full, I moved home and when I moved here I was like man, I don't know anyone that runs. You know everyone I went to high school with. Even college. Like nobody does this, like no one will think this is fun, just me. So little little did. I know the you know in walks, the Portage Lakes Running Club. So I started going to the running club and met you know all of my now people I run with on a very regular basis and you know we just kind of all grew together and they really encouraged me to you can do a marathon, you can do a 50K, you can do this and that, and it kind of just kept going from there. Kind of crazy how that evolved, but pretty cool to look back on all of that and how it kind of all unfolded.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it seems like a good way to unfold. And when did you start Run? Well Be Well.
Speaker 2:March of 2020.
Speaker 1:Perfect, you know, like the exact date.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was like March 5th or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Pretty crazy day to start, I think, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And when I started this it was more of like a side thing, like I think a lot of probably run coaches or trainers might do the same thing, right, they think it's gonna be a fun hobby. Like I really thought, you know I could. Probably I'm going to coach myself and then my neighbor, I'll probably coach my neighbor and like that's it. It's going to be great. It just totally snowballed into like this is my full-time job, this is how the bills get paid, this is the income, this it's totally insane that it evolved into this over time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, From where it started, Not easy to do for any kind of small business, especially well, the running coach business and yeah, so hats off to you for that that's. It's not easy, especially during that time to start because there was so much uncertainty with what was going to happen in the future, and to go out on your own and start a business like that. Yeah, I mean, it starts as a hobby and becomes a business. But it seems like you have quite a few athletes. You know, just looking at your Instagram, that you know your Metal Monday count, that big weekend for you here coming off of Burning River. So you had quite a few athletes out there, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, that's always a good weekend. We always have a good showing for Burning River. Such a fun race I mean the fact that you can do a relay too it helps all kinds of runners, all different backgrounds become involved, and because they added that marathon distance too now I think this is the second year of that so, yeah, my athletes really had a great time and, wow, that weather was something else, but they still came out to the good they all did really great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that weather was brutal the humidity, the dew point. We joke about the dew point. We don't know what the dew point is, but we know when it's high that it's not good. I think it's an emoji scale that our running friends use and, yeah, we know that it's high, it's not good Like we have. I think it's an emoji scale that our running friends use and, yeah, we know that it's high, it's not good. What are some things that you had your athletes do? Because it was. It wasn't like a surprise that it was going to be that humid and high dew point, but what are some things that you did with your athletes to counteract the heat and humidity of that day?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, there's so much that can happen over an ultra distance, I mean even a marathon distance. That's a long time to be out there. But something that I hone in on with my athletes during training is a lot on nutrition and hydration in general and you know, inevitably this time of year we're all kind of out running in the heat and the humidity. I have different personal theories on acclimation to those things. I think that you can get heat acclimated. I'm not convinced you can get humid, acclimated to the humidity in the dew point. I just don't think it's like physiologically possible. But I could be wrong.
Speaker 1:I think there's varying degrees of how miserable you'll be, but I agree, I don't think that you can get acclimated to the heat and humidity. I know we have some friends that are West Coast, no humidity people, and they don't understand. Yeah, it's not fun, like it's a whole different heat. Like just because it's 75, it doesn't mean that it's cool. It's 75 with a 73 degree dew point. It is miserable. You're not going to cool off. Yeah, while we're talking about heat acclimation, there's another thing. We follow the sport of ultra running here. I won't say primarily, but you know it's what I like to do. So I, during Western states, I saw a lot on heat acclimation and people doing saunas, running on treadmills and like the sauna suits. I'm convinced, however, that there is no sub and that's fine. I'm sure it helps to a degree, but I'm convinced that there's no substitute for actually just going out and running on a hot day. Is there any science that you know of that supports me, or am I wrong yet again on this show?
Speaker 2:I would have to double check the current research, but to my knowledge I mean, yes, I completely agree those things could help. But I think you're exactly right. I mean being like, if you think about the different varieties of heat training, like it has to help a little bit, right, but there's nothing. That it's almost like when you get injured and you're getting on a bike instead of running, like that's great because you're getting your heart rate up but you're not replacing running, like you're still not running. Not to say that you, if you get injured, the bike isn't worth anything. I'm not saying that at all, but it's just different. Kind of the same concept with the heat training too, I think, yeah, if you can get outside, you're probably going to get the best acclimation you know by just going outside, getting the real deal versus. I mean, yes, you can also supplement and try, you know, adding in the sauna and different things. And I know that.
Speaker 2:You know the elites go to different areas to train in the different heat and humidities, as you mentioned the no humidity area. That brought me over to the women's 6K. One of the elite runners I think it was had to be Stephanie Bruce. She did a shakeout run and we all went to it and we were kind of like. So I asked her I'm like so what do you think of the weather right now? She's like this humidity is insane. Like they can handle the heat, but the humidity is. It's a totally different ballgame, for sure. So a little off topic there. But yeah, I think that there's lots of things you can do to help with the heat. But yeah, just if you can face the real deal and get out there, I think you should. If that's something that's really on your radar. Like I got to get acclimated to this heat, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just because you're breathing in hot air, you're just completely surrounded by hot air. I don't know, I just you can do things in the lab, but the lab doesn't always necessarily translate over to the real world and doing things there. So I don't know, I just it's become a recent thing. I didn't actually have that down to talk to you about, but since it came up and yeah, I should have you know, it's not often I get someone with your credentials on Rachel and I get to learn. So that's why I like these conversations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all good, that's good.
Speaker 1:Now, one thing I did tell you I was going to ask you about hrv training, my, my watch here, uh, the garmin, I don't know what it is, but it comes up with my hrv every morning and I have noticed and it could be in my head. I always do save myself for the possibility of it being in my head, the the placebo effect. You know, more psychological than real. But I do feel like there is a correlation to how my runs go to my HRV status. That Garmin has told me. What are your feelings on that? Do you think there is a correlation or is it in my mind?
Speaker 2:I, yeah, I mean, I think that it, it can be both.
Speaker 1:We could probably do a whole podcast on these uh, this theory and idea behind it I kind of thought that, like when I was looking at a little bit, when I because my old watch didn't really have this and it well, it did, but it didn't make sense, like it was like sky high one day, drop dead the next day, but this one's pretty steady, and then, looking into it, I was like, yeah, we could probably do two hours on just this, but I'd like to get your take on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because I've seen both sides of it and I obviously worked with tons of athletes who we talk about this right, it's like the more I don't know, the more years that pass, the more data we have. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, necessarily in some cases, but it's great to have you know these, these ideas and this, this information. I should say I always start with the idea of you're the human wearing the gadget. So take a step back and really look at like you wake up and the first thing you do is check your, you know your data and all that. Try not to let it impact the rest of your day or your run and things like that, because, yes, the data is important and it could be really beneficial, but I have a lot of people who kind of it just like runs their life. So really take a step back.
Speaker 2:Is your watch accurate? I mean, yeah, I think there's some, definitely some, accuracies to it. I'm not saying that it's completely inaccurate all the time, but really take into account, like how you feel you, just like the HRV supposedly it's supposed to take into account, like your environment it's supposed to take into account, like your stress your sleep, the environment you're in, by measuring, you know kind of it goes back to like the autonomic nervous system. Right, it measures like time in between your heartbeat and things like that. It's probably way more technical than how I describe it, but it's, you know, it's capturing that.
Speaker 2:So if you're following that trend and you do think that like, yeah, I guess I am feeling a little run down, my heart rate is a lot higher for this easy pace you know the weather's not that crazy. I guess you know kind of tying those ideas together is a good idea to take a look at the whole picture, then if you're starting to feel like man, my HRV is tanking. Yeah, you know what I have been stressed out. The kids have, you know, their extracurriculars I've been up late working or had to travel or different variabilities in life that can impact that. Definitely they can impact your quality of sleep. Then too.
Speaker 1:I do get a sleep score as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, I, they really need it's total sidebar. But Garmin really needs to have a button for I'm pregnant, I'm breastfeeding, I have young children who wake me up all night. They need to have a button for I'm pregnant, I'm breastfeeding, I have young children who wake me up all night. They need to have those settings. Yeah, I can tell you that is extremely defeating when you just are in a stage of life where sleep is not high quality. So, anyway, yeah, the sleep score too, it's tough. So I do know that.
Speaker 2:You know the HRV can be a good way to look at your training. It's been a little while. I think there was still, like the Harvard health report put something out about the HRV could be potentially, um, something about. They still question the accuracy of the HRV, but I could be out of date with that at this point. But I do think, just like everything and this is something I talk to my athletes about like when you're looking at your running as a whole picture, you have to look at the entire puzzle.
Speaker 2:If you're looking at just HRV, you're looking at one piece of your puzzle. If you're only looking at your watch pick of your average pace, you're just looking at one piece of the puzzle. You've got to like really put it all together and I think sometimes that is what helps, you know, having a coach being like a second party to your running, looking at like the big picture and pointing things out to you that you know we may not notice. But yeah, so tracking the HRV if you do feel like the trends are accurate, then that could be a good way to determine like whoa I'm dipping into the red. Accurate, then that could be a good way to determine like whoa I'm dipping into the red. Maybe I need to take a couple of days off and really focus on my stress, get my whatever together my life or work or you know whatever you got to do and then get back to it and see how you feel, see if you feel a little bit better if you make a couple of changes.
Speaker 1:That sounds. It sounds reasonable and you know, I guess, much simpler when you think of it that way. So that makes sense. But yeah, I was looking at mine, mine's 98. I don't know how accurate it is. Again, like it's, I don't know what's good or what's bad on it either, just a little green bar. It's like green's good, I, I guess. So.
Speaker 2:So yeah, everyone has a different range. That I've learned. I don't know specifically the numbers and the ranges, like it's almost like I feel like I should know because it's like, is this more like a lab value, like in a clinical setting? But it's not. A lot of people I've worked with have had totally different numbers. I have had people who are up in the 90s, like that, because they'll send me a picture of their watch. My numbers are not like that at all, so they're much lower. I don't know I'd have to dig into the number ranges, but I think it just applies to you and it's very specific to the person. Again, I could be wrong there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's, I think, a good segue into heart rate as well. I know that's become super popular in running. The last three or four years is what I've been really paying attention to it. But you know, here's zone two. But again it's so different for everyone.
Speaker 1:My good friend of the show, grant Johnson, and I were out on a long run 15 miles trails and we chatted the whole time. We were going down a long downhill and he was like what's your heart rate out of 125? And he's like I'm at 160, I'm always at 160, like doesn't matter, like we're having a conversational, we're at conversational pace, having a full conversation for whatever we're out there, two out to 15 miles. So and I was like I grant it's, it's, it's probably not real because yours is different than mine Like we can't compare the two at all. How do you help athletes get over that? You're the coach, but they still hear the outside stuff of zone two. You got to just run slower to get fast and so how do you deal with your athletes when it comes to the heart rate zones?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, this would be a great another podcast episode in and of itself, for sure. I mean, cause it. Yeah, I mean everything with running. I mean we could talk forever, right, we can geek out today, but the heart rate thing, it is, it's a lot to unpack.
Speaker 2:So, first off, again, I always go back to you're the human wearing the gadget, do you actually think that's correct? Like, then we start talking about, like the accuracy, right, because I went through the longest time until, like last year or the year before, I can't remember. Now I ended up getting a heart rate monitor. I hadn't had one for years and I think I lost it. It came with, like the OG dinosaur garment that was was like whatever blue and big, which is great, but I don't know where that went.
Speaker 2:So, looking at your watch, like, do you think it's accurate? Because a lot of times the Garmin is notorious for going into cadence lock. So we're looking at, like, is your watch even accurate? Is it snug enough to get a reading? There's so much sweat going on under there too, and in the cold I notice a lot of times my heart rate would be like 186 and I'm literally jogging, I'm like I'm, I'm breathing through my nose it is not even close to 186. So the inaccuracies that you might see, so you know, remembering that, getting yourself a heart rate monitor, a chest strap I know there's new ones that go around your arm that I guess are pretty reliable too I was going to say how do you feel about that?
Speaker 1:Because that's what I have the arm one, I feel that it's a lot more. The wrist one was just. You might as well discard it and not even worry about it. I was going to ask you how do you feel about the? I guess it's near the shoulder, that accuracy. I guess it's near the shoulder, that accuracy. I guess there's probably a lot more blood flow through the bicep than your wrist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've heard that that's good. Accuracy, too I think that it is good to just have something just. Yeah, they're just built for more accuracy. They're built to do like one thing. So I think that they've really been helpful and for me personally, 100% my heart rate reads completely different than it used to having the chest strap. So, having that making sure you're getting some accurate data before you're worried, you know, or knowing, like I don't wear a chest strap, I'm going to go off of feel. Okay, then we talk about that, because not everyone wants to invest in the extra gadgets and stuff for running. So then we're going off of feel.
Speaker 2:You really have to be honest with yourself. You know, if you're, let's say, training for a marathon or something that involves, you know, hard speed workouts, which could also be an ultra, definitely you really want to be honest with yourself so that you can have the energy and effort to go hard on those hard days. You probably do need those easy recovery type days in between, depending on your mileage, depending on your running history, that kind of thing. So we're talking more about effort at that point. If, if the athletes like I don't know, you know my heart rate's accurate, then we're talking more about. Well, let's just read it effort wise. Like, just be honest with yourself, did this actually feel easy? If it did, great, I'm, I'm in. So I feel like if someone's coming to work with a coach, they're probably ready to be honest about their running get better. They want to, you know, maximize their performance. So we go off of that a lot of times too.
Speaker 2:Then really, you have to look at the athlete overall. You know, is this person new to running? Do they maybe have cardiac drift, where the heart rate is going to go up and it might stay up, because that's just kind of how it goes in that theory, that phenomenon, it's just kind of how it goes in some of those longer runs. You can try to bring your heart rate down. It might come down a little bit, but inevitably you're going out for training for your first marathon, your heart rate might say hi, it might be getting hot out. You know there's different things to look at. So, aside from heart rate, you know really you're looking at recovery. Is the athlete able to recover well, to move on to their next workout, to move on to their next run, whether it be a long run, a short run, are they able to complete it. Are they still sleeping well at night? Is their resting heart rate great? Is it normal? Is it spiking? So there's all kinds of things that branch off from this.
Speaker 2:You know the heart rate on the run that you have to consider and really take a look at when you're working with somebody. So, yeah, the conversations can really go a lot of different ways. But if the goal is, you know, we're trying to do some easy run, some zone two stuff at a specific time, then if the heart, if the gadget is inaccurate, then I'm asking them okay, we're going off of effort and I want it to be like, maybe max effort of like four out of 10 for an easy run. Make it super conversational. Or a good friend of mine, varel, he told me too, you know he made a good point If you can breathe out longer than you can breathe in, you're probably in a good easy pace zone. So lots of little tips and things out there that can help keep things easy.
Speaker 1:That's a new one for me to breathe out as long as you breathe in, or for as long as you breathe in.
Speaker 2:Breathe out longer than you can breathe in. Yeah, Longer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I write things down a lot, so that way I can come back and hopefully learn something when I do these.
Speaker 1:So that's the point of these, but that's something new and that's one thing I've made a conscious effort to do, and the heart rate does help, but it's to keep the easy runs super easy, like to where I can listen to a podcast, concentrate on what they're saying, a book, whatever to a podcast, concentrate on what they're saying, a book, whatever. I do seem, then to get more out of the actual workouts that I do. The only time I use heart rate is really for the easy runs, just to try and like it's easier for me to keep things honest with myself, like you said, because oh, I think I'm easy. And then I look down and it's like, oh, it's, you know, 845 pace. That's not what my normal easy pace is. So that's what I use it for in reference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you're exactly right, and that because you want to be able to nail those harder days and recover in between. Then, like you said, in the ultra world too especially the name of the game you're doing really long runs, you're out there for a lot of time. So in order to for your body to manage that, to be able to tolerate it, you really have to not you, you. It's impossible. At some point you'll just completely fry yourself out. If you're going so hard on all of your runs, you have to be able to, like you said, take it down to a level that's easy, feels easy.
Speaker 1:Overall, you're able to just enjoy and focus on those, the podcasts and things that you listen to too now there's one thing I had to hear people say is that their easy pace throws off their gait and they feel that they might get injured from altering their gait so much so they don't like to run that easy because, like like it is, when I like my ease, my very easy pace is like nine, four, nine, between nine, 30 and nine, 45, super easy. Everyone's different, but I do feel that I kind of shuffle along more than I'm not actually really running. But is that something I should be concerned about? Or, and was that in my head as well, do you think?
Speaker 2:I have heard so many people say that, yes, and sometimes, you know, yeah, I go back and forth on this in my mind too. You know, sometimes I think that maybe, if you're slowing down and you feel like gosh it's, you know I'm going so slow to keep my heart rate down Well, let's go back to the inaccuracies of the heart rate. If you are able to keep it feeling easy, maybe not worry about a pace so much. Easy is an effort. It's not necessarily a pace. You know we all do have our easy pace ranges, but maybe it is more of an effort that you're focusing on. You know, if you're unable to slow down and you feel like you know the effort still feels easy, okay, then maybe we can roll with that.
Speaker 2:I do believe that if you slow down too much, yeah, it very likely changes your form up a little bit. I mean, inevitably, form will change. When you're running fast, when you're running hard let's say you're doing some track workout like your form is going to look totally different than it will on a recovery run just the nature of your actual running. If something's starting to hurt when you're slowing down, then maybe it's something that needs looked at from a PT standpoint. Is it your form change? Is there something going on that we don't know about that kind of thing? That's something to consider too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. If it's hurting going slow, even if I'm shuffling and gait change, I'm probably not putting that much impact on whatever's hurting, as I am if I'm running, you know, 645 pace or whatever. I'm sure that's a lot more impact. And again, I don't know, I'm just a hobby jogger who tries to uncover things here and there, so I you know it's always good to get another professional opinion. One thing I want to ask you, rachel what is the in the ultra runners that you coach? What is the when you first start out? What is the biggest hole in people's games that you usually find? What is the biggest weakness? What's one thing that you see right away in the most people? I guess that you see the most improvement.
Speaker 2:Probably nutrition.
Speaker 1:I knew you were going to say that. I almost actually said without saying nutrition, specifically because I know a lot of people that don't eat very well, so me myself included. So yeah, but go ahead please. Nutrition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say across the board. I mean we're talking probably any distance, but we know, with ultras I mean you're out there for hours and hours and you're training for hours and hours. So if you're not hitting your nutrition like day to day, chances are you may not also be hitting your nutrition pre, during and post run, along with hydration too. So that's a whole nother topic. So if we're already kind of in a hole, day to day, carbohydrates are low. You know we live in a low carb kind of world.
Speaker 2:Carbs are a little bit demonized outside of the running community. I think that we're making a change with that. That carbs are our friend, definitely, but I think that it's still, you know, something that's floating around there. So I think that you know, a lot of times the athletes coming to work together we want to hit this ultra goal. They're willing to do the miles, they're willing to put in the time, they do the best they can with the time they have.
Speaker 2:But then it comes down to fueling. Did they take enough with them? Did they take enough before, during and after? And then hydration is a whole other ballgame, because that is so, so incredibly individualized. How much comes out in our sweat we really don't know unless we get a sweat test done and we do some, you know, weighing in and out before and after runs to see how much fluid we're losing as well. So fluid and electrolytes, so a lot of that, because we could have everything else set up. Everything's great. I slept good. I've got all the time in the world to do my 20-whatever-miler this weekend, but you maybe show up with a couple of goos and a bottle of water and you're going to be done sooner than you want to be.
Speaker 1:For some reason, that was really hard for me to learn. I don't know why. You would think like, hey, this seems like a pretty easy fix, you and I sitting here talking about it. But it's not. And it did. I finally this past year got it correct at Canyons 50K where I was like, oh, mile 23,. I still feel really good. And then I looked back to what I consumed during the race and I was like, oh, that makes yeah, I don't have my two goos in a bottle of water. So, yeah, that's probably probably something to do with it, I imagine. So I don't know why I would have told you not to talk about that, since it is like the biggest thing that I miss. But again, you know I'm the hobby jogger. Think that the research and just the attention to fueling was not really existent.
Speaker 2:It was there but not, I think that a lot of us, you know, we took goos when we're like, oh, it's race day, I got to take a couple of goos. Maybe I took one during training Like it just wasn't as much of a thing. Um, even when I run with, uh, people who've been running their whole life lives and they're headed into their 60s now and they used to just go out at 8 am and run until 11 or 12 in the afternoon or in the morning, late morning, midday, and take some water, hit the water stops wherever they could find them, and that was that Like there was no watch, there was no data, data. There was like if you brought a water bottle, great, like they didn't take anything. So I think we've all at some point or other within training, even if you're prepared, maybe you left your goose at home or something, stuff happens. But yeah, we've all learned the hard way at some point or other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not a fun lesson. I learned it, yeah, more than once for sure. Yeah, not a great feeling, terrible feeling it, but it's still, I don't know it's, it's. It was still tough to get over, like the the hurdle of of the nutrition. Talking about nutrition, I know, like the spaghetti, the alfredo dinner the night before is kind of on the way out, it seems, and we're replacing it, I guess, like rice, is it simpler carbs? I guess that is more in now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that sounds right. The Alfredo example is probably on the way out due to the higher fat content naturally in the sauce. The two things you want to avoid within your carb load, but especially the day before the race, would be too much fat. So from sauces, gravies, butter, olive oil, fried foods, french fries, things like that. And don't get me wrong, I have people who can tolerate that all the live long day. So everyone's different.
Speaker 1:I can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, See, but notably it's like if you're you're unsure of waiting, it is probably a safer route until you. If you want to experiment with it, that's great. So lower fat is good, Not zero fat, just lower you don't want to go bananas on it and lower fiber. So basically, all of our healthy foods, right, Our fruits and vegetables and whole grains, brown rice, brown pasta, all of that those are going to contain more fibrous, some more fibrous food, more fiber content.
Speaker 1:Have you had purple rice?
Speaker 2:You know what I want to say. I have. Maybe it's been a long time. It was a black rice or purple rice. Now I can't remember.
Speaker 1:I had never seen it before. I was home in Pittsburgh visiting family. I was leaving and my mom's like a whole food shopper, kind of a hippie, and she hands me this bag of purple rice. Mom, what are you like? You're not eating purple rice, like that's so weird. And it sat in my pantry for about three months. Finally I ran out of just white rice and I was like hell, let me try this purple. And it was really good. I'd never had it before. It was like this whole foods I forget. I don't want to say the name of it because it's going to be wrong, but it was. I just looked for the purple rice now. So I eat purple rice. I should have looked again. I should probably do more research when I do these, but I should look at the name. Got your opinion on that because it is. It's really good. It's kind of soft. That's my new go to meal before night. Before carb is the purple rice.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's great. Yeah, I just doing a quick search on it here. Yeah, looks pretty common. It looks like it's roughly the same as a brown rice, you know obviously.
Speaker 1:Easier to call, which is important to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, yeah, but rice is a great option, you know pre-race definitely.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this episode of the Hobby Jogger. Unfortunately, we ran out of time with Rachel, so we are going to pivot and make this into a two part episode, with the next part coming out next Tuesday, because we had a lot to cover and I didn't get it all covered in the timeframe allotted for that episode. So join us next week for part two with Rachel Lehman.