The Hobby Jogger Podcast
Welcome to The Hobby Jogger Podcast, where elite athletes and ham-and-eggers lace up their stories. We explore the common ground that running creates from the world-class runner to the hobbyist hitting the pavement, trail or treadmill. Expect a blend of inspiration, laughter and the shared joy that makes every step count. Join us on this journey, where every run is a story worth sharing.
The Hobby Jogger Podcast
E33 | Lucas Hathaway on Ultra-Marathons and Launching Runur Athletics
Join us for an incredible journey into ultra-running with Lucas Hathaway, a passionate ultra-runner and the innovative mind behind the apparel company Runur. Lucas reveals his transformation from marathon enthusiast to ultra-marathon competitor. His recent third-place finish at the Tampa 100 and the unique challenges of running the Keys 100, including the iconic seven-mile bridge at sunset, are just a few highlights of his inspiring story. This episode promises to ignite your own spirit of adventure and determination.
As we traverse the world of endurance racing, the conversation delves into the profound mental and physical challenges that define ultra-running. With personal anecdotes from races like the Grindstone 100K and ambitious goals like the Arizona Monster 300, we explore the delicate balance between pushing limits and preserving well-being. Our dialogue underscores the importance of mental resilience and strategic planning, offering listeners valuable insights into the mindset needed to tackle long-distance races.
Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of the Hobby Jogger. I am your host, Casey Koza. I am joined by my good friend, Mr Rob Myers. Rob, how are you today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing pretty well, a bit of a work marathon day, so I'm happy to be talking to you guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a little bit different. Always good to change up. You know the meeting vibe, I guess. So glad we can get you off of the work meetings and onto something a lot more fun. Today's guest comes to us from an apparel company, mr Lucas Hathaway, who's the owner of Runner, and you can find it at Run your Run. He's going to explain that to you because I got confused. Lucas, how are you today?
Speaker 3:Great, great. Thank you so much for having me. This is a blast. I can't wait to spend as much time as you guys want to talking about running.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. That's why we're here, big fans of running, we run all over. Rob and I have traveled not around the world yet, but far enough across the, I guess, the United States to run. And you're quite the accomplished runner yourself, lucas, just coming off a third place at the Tampa 100, correct?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that one was man. That was the tale of two stories. That was the tale of two races, the first 65, another Lucas. Ironically, another Lucas and I, uh were were first and second. We we ran 11 hours and some change for 65 miles and then it was like then it became an ultra and the next 35 miles took longer than the first 65. It's just funny how those those things go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the uh that's. That is one thing about the ultras that the last eighth of an ultra can take as long as the first seven eights If, absolutely if, things don't go to plan or go a little bit, a little bit off plan. Are you from Tampa or Florida? Cause you've, you've run a bunch in Florida, correct?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't know what it is. I glutton for punishment maybe. I mean I've, I've. I came from the marathon world. Uh, we took on the six majors over the last six years or seven years with COVID, and did those and you know it's funny, like I've, I've, I fell apart in 65 degree marathons, you know. And then I decided that it would be good to run Miami 100, keys 100 and Tampa 100 in you know, 80, 90 degrees. So I don't know how it keeps working out, but, uh, most of my ultra experience, ironically, is in Florida.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember you. I remember seeing you ran. You ran the Keys 100, which is also a pretty interesting race and something that one it goes down from. It just falls Florida Keys down to the southern part of the Keys right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you go from basically mile 100 to mile zero. You know, like you, you run that down the chain, excuse me, the chain of islands on route one and, man, there is. That is a special kind of hell when you start that race and you hit mile one and you're on like a highway, you're on overseas highway and, like you, have this two, three foot sign greeting you that says mile 99. And then you go another mile and it says mile 98 and you're, there's no turns, there's no. You know, the sun comes up, there's no shade, like it is.
Speaker 3:I got to, I got to mile one, got to mile two, got to mile two and I'm just like, almost like panic attack symptoms, because it was like my brain knew what it now had to do. You know, there was no, sometimes like a trail or a turn or a whatever a hill. You know it gives you at least a downhill, it gives you a. Oh, I only have to go a mile and take a left. And so it man it. That one hit me hard and the threat of traffic.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's you a, oh, I only have to go a mile and take a left, and so it man it, that one hit me hard, and the threat of traffic.
Speaker 3:I mean, there's one road man, that's it. It doesn't matter if you're walking or you're in a car. Unfortunately that was. That was one of the ones that a couple of people got hit this past year. That was. It's a rough as a as a tough race. You know it. Just Bob Becker puts on an incredible production and loved every minute of that race and equally despised it and loathed it and questioned every part of my life in that race.
Speaker 2:Beautiful sections, though what is that? The seven mile bridge? Oh yeah, there's a couple of bridges that are just epic. I've never run a race on them, but I've driven over many times.
Speaker 3:They're just epic. I've never run a race on them but I've driven over many times. It was cool with seven mile because the first first 12, because I generally start fast, like for whatever reason, I'm just I've done a string of road hundreds, you know. I guess I've done OK in them and like the, the first 50 of the keys I cramped. I you know all of it up downs and all the fun moments of running ultras. But the cool thing was I got to 50, my, I got to mile 50 and then to seven mile bridge, right at sunset and so I'm running seven mile over water, just fiery sky. I mean it was like it's one of those moments that you almost get emotional talking about after the, the hell that it took to get there and then what it represents for the next. You know, 50 miles negatively split, splitting it and clawing back from middle of the pack to top 20 finish was was just one of those things that sticks with you.
Speaker 1:That doesn't happen very often. Usually, once you start the moonwalk, it's tough to come back from and, yeah, rarely do you see someone fade back and then be able to come back through the field. So hats off to you for that, lucas.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Yeah, I mean, everyone hasn't done that. Tampa was the moonwalk.
Speaker 1:Because when I think of Floridaida, it's dead flat down there. Everything is flat. There's not a hill in florida.
Speaker 3:I don't think the highest elevation in florida is what like 150 feet or something somewhere around there, somewhere in gainesville, is like the highest point in florida and, uh, you know, bridges are the only elevation in these races flat creates a whole different.
Speaker 1:I just recently attempted the Canal Corridor 100. And flat just creates so many more problems that I really didn't even think of before attempting it. It's not like a trail race that I'm used to, where, hey, I'll just hike up. I'm going to hike up this mountain, basically rest and walk what we call power hiking. Thanks to your boy, Scott Jurek, Not to be walking up a hill, but we power hike, right, Rob? It's walking.
Speaker 2:We call it power hiking.
Speaker 1:We can have a little bit better name. But yeah, it created such a larger amount of problems that I just didn't think of. I made it to mile 35, really good. I was like, oh, this is easy, this won't think of. I mean, I made it to like mile 35, really good. I was like, oh, this is easy, this won't be tough. And then right after that it was just, ah, it's really hard just to hold this pace for this long and it just everything just fell apart all at once, unlike previous attempts at mountain ultras. So what is your game plan going into these, because I know there was a couple of guys that were run walking, another woman she was a run walker. They seem to have much better plans than my concept of a plan, because I didn't really have one. So what was your game plan for the flat 100 miler?
Speaker 3:So I mean, I guess, generally speaking. So I started my 100 miler career with Blackbeard's Revenge, which is, you know, coast of North Carolina top to bottom. So again, flat, hot, 100 miler, point to point. Does that go in the Outer Banks?
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:That one was. That one was great because it gave me, gave me. It was my first hundred and you just don't know what you don't know, and sometimes that's a good thing.
Speaker 1:And you took second there, which is awesome, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it was. Yeah, I raced against Whitney Richmond, who was part of the US 24-hour team, and just incredible, that one was survival, not winning. You know there was a storm that they paused the race for an hour and all that. And so, strategy wise, I think that for me it's about momentum. It's like a game of football, like you you've you've got to kind of ride the waves, and so go out a little quicker, establish a little bit more of like a pace, establish more of a a cadence and and kind of get off the ground, but don't go too fast where you blow up because I've done that too and then create stop-offs, create goals etc. Because, like the keys and, uh, outer banks, there's really no turns. You know it's just 100 miles, it's flat and you can run as hard as you want to there there's no like obstruction, there's no hill, there's no trail, there's no, there's nothing. And so establish an early pace.
Speaker 3:So, like in Miami ran first marathon I, I just try to get first marathon around. You know, four to five hours, get, get some pace going and then, you know, have some checkoffs. So the second marathon be another goal, you know, third marathon be another goal, like just kind of break it up into fourths and really focus on okay, I'm taking care of myself in the meantime, you know, and a couple of those blowups and races have been when I've gotten in racing brain way too early and started stopping the food intake, the proper hydration or whatever, and I'm just get to the finish line and then all of a sudden, you know, the wheels come off and now you got to go 35 miles of moonwalking like Tampa.
Speaker 2:So the Outer Banks race. Did you go north of Corolla onto the sand, or was it just all on the road?
Speaker 3:So you do like this, this like one mile up, turn around and come back down, and so you start at the lighthouse, um, and go you like, basically touch the sand, and then you turn around and run a hundred miles South. You know, just right, right, straight down. And it's funny because in the pre-race they said right, straight down. And it's funny because in the pre-race they said, hey, there's going to be this turn in your last mile or two. And you're used to 20 hours of running with no turns. And then you're ultra brain and you're ultra tired and it's pitch black and I'm by myself and I, you know, and you start just freaking out.
Speaker 3:Did I miss the turn? I don't see anybody. I'm in this deserted town and I know he said something about a turn. Is there somebody behind me? Is am I? Do I need to? Did I go the wrong way? Whatever, and fast forward. You know it's like you get to the finish and it's like what did I just do? You know what? What was the? How did I just get from this place to this place using my legs?
Speaker 1:There's always a certain part of zoning out for me. You know, like you said, like there's just. This is weird. How am I here Like I don't really, and then, in hindsight, do you have a trouble remembering in hindsight, like things that happened during a race?
Speaker 3:There's. There's definitely like points in a race that I'll remember until I'm 90. And then there's just gaps of you said this or you know that you talked about this or whatever, and it's no, I don't remember that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of gaps and a lot of spots. How about you, rob?
Speaker 2:I tend to remember the mental side, where you're having a lot of fun, you're good, and then you go through that panic where, like something happens, your stomach's bothering you, you just don't feel right. And then you figure that problem out. You go another 10 miles. Hey, I'm good, I'm feeling good, I'm going to crush it. Then 10 miles later you feel like you're done. It's DNF city. So I remember that mental back and forth more than I remember.
Speaker 1:You know my surroundings or who I was on the course with, or I don't know, lucas, do you have the thoughts of when you are moonwalking, when it's at its worst? I do anyway. I always feel like, oh, hey, I can just stop at this. I make a million'll. Just you know, save it, save it for next time, you know, leave something in the tank. But my brain, just that's the hardest part for me is getting it to turn off, like, hey, we ain't quitting, this is just what we're doing. And do you have those moments of doubt as well? Or is it just me and Rob?
Speaker 3:No, you know it's. I mean I'm I'm just coming off of my first DNF in Spartathlon this year and I think that in the lead up that's where I have my mental gymnastics, like going into the race, it's, I don't have to start this, it won't be a DNF. Like I can't get down there, or you know like it's hard for me to sleep that week. You know all the like anxiety and stress and all that. It's like it builds so like when the gun goes off it's less about the noise of not finishing and like honestly it it it kind of turns into, uh, anger of why am I not at the finish sometimes, or like a frustration of like ultra math. You know, like when you get 70 miles in, you're like, hey, I'm 70 miles in, I'm like I'm almost done with this race. No, you're not. Like you're not even halfway. You're not halfway until 80 or 85 miles, you know, and it's like then you're.
Speaker 3:The insidious thing that I think is is the hardest battle mentally is when you start convincing yourself you're doing damage by finishing, like it's a problem to finish this race, like you're gonna hurt yourself, you're going to cause permanent damage, you're going to or you've overloaded your calendar and you don't feel great right now and you're already thinking of mile 80 next month. Well, I don't know if I can finish these 20 miles and I've got another hundred, like I got to just save myself, like what. How am I going to get to that start line? And I think that that's where the the like, the mental gymnastics for me starts, when it's like my brain goes into preservation mode. Not, this is hard mode. You know what I mean. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I've more than a few times where I've yeah, yeah, I know maybe we push it too hard and yeah, I don't want to get injured, and you know, then I, you know I can't do what I want to do next week and we can just, we can just shut it down here and it'll be, it'll be just as well, no big or you or you feel bad for your crew.
Speaker 3:You know like you're starting the moonwalk and you're like they're going to be out here all night. You're trying to. Your brain is like, well, I mean, you're just terrible, you're. You know you're leaving your crew out here for 10 hours while you walk for 10 miles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's a big one too, cause, yeah, I mean David, the producer knows he he crewed me at grindstone 100 K it was. It was miserably cold and rainy. I've talked about it numbers times in the show, but yeah, that that definitely went through my head is I've got my girlfriend out here, my buddy out here. They're wet, they're cold, just as cold as I am. Yeah, maybe we just, you know, we'll just wrap it up here and go home, and but I talked myself out of it and I'm sure they would both agree that wouldn't want me to quit just because of them. I'm sure, cause I that's how I am I wouldn't want them to quit because of me.
Speaker 2:So it's human nature to go into protective mode. You're not supposed to go out and run fast for 30, 40, 50 miles. Yeah, I think that's that's our body is just saying, hey, we got to protect ourselves. Let's shut this down.
Speaker 3:Cause I think we're all, I think we're all aware that it's going to be hard. It's like I was running one of the races and you know this run, this girl's running next to me and great person finished the race that I was in, like you know, awesome finish. She had that moment in her first hundred where it was 62 miles in and everything hurt and she starts thinking about preservation as opposed to screw the rest of the career, the rest of the races, the rest of whatever. Like I'm in this, I'm going to finish it. She stopped at 62, 63 miles in the spirit of being ready for the next thing preserve and protect and all that. And it sounded so logical, it sounded so good. You know the spiking DNF rate on a lot of these races. I think that's probably more the culprit than it's a hard thing. 10, 15 minutes of a trail side sit a you know car, nap a you know a piece of pizza or whatever your, your food is, your whole perspective on life changes, you know. So if you, you just stop with the noise for five minutes and say, listen, I don't have to go and race another mile in my life, let's just go another mile, let's walk, let's do whatever, and it was my first.
Speaker 3:When I was in my first hundred, I I had had I'd signed up for a 50 miler, covid happened. They canceled it three weeks ahead of time and I'm like, well, crap, I've already done all the training, I you know. So I went out with my wife and my mom and ran a jogging trail in Georgia, just 50 miles out to Alabama, and they crewed me and it was like kind of one of those Forrest Gump days. Everything worked, perfect weather, nutrition was on point, just everything was just kind of feel. I got done one mile of low point. You know there's video of me dancing at 43 miles, you know. It was just like, just like. Everything worked. So I immediately did the smart thing and signed it for a hundred, you know.
Speaker 3:And so then when I get to, when I get to Blackbeards, I do the a hundred and I get to 30 miles and that's the second furthest I've ever gone. And then the brain kicks in Wait a second, it's hot, because it's starting to be, you know, 11, 12 o'clock in the afternoon. You know sun's coming up, you're nowhere close to the finish whatever, and it's like you just start to feel the weight of the world and my wife jumps out of the car and she's just like hey, you want to walk? Uh, I really want to get out and stretch my legs. Yeah, I guess I'll do it. You know I'm feeling really bad for myself. You know, yeah, I guess I'll do a mile. And at that 15, 20 minute mile, whatever it was, was probably the whole reason why I finished that race. You know, it's like sometimes we get so in the moment that we don't realize that, hey, this is just a, it's just a phase, this is a season, this is a moment, and it doesn't have to define the rest of the race.
Speaker 1:Just looking through your ultra sign up here, lucas, you've you started out with with a hundred, a couple of 50 milers. Then I noticed this is insane. I know of this race going off the mental strength. You signed up for the Arizona monster 300. I don't know. I know Andrew glaze former guests on the show is running it. I don't know a whole lot about it other than it's 300 miles in Arizona. What made you take that jump A 300 mile race?
Speaker 3:So I was invited to participate in Tampa after winning Miami, the first hundred that I ran, even though I had that Forrest Gump and all that. It was like a week of sleepless nights as I signed up for it. And then it would like cold sweat randomly, like why the heck did I do that? And then the week leading up to it, and then, um, it would like cold sweat randomly Like why the heck did I do that? And then the week leading up to it I couldn't sleep and even starting the race I had no issues, or I I was. I was like freaking out, whatever. When Tampa reached out to me, yeah, I'm not doing anything. That weekend and I was, I, you know, with runner, I was actually down at Disney exhibiting for the two days previous, so I was at the expo on my feet for 20 hours and then I drove an hour down to Tampa and just ran a hundred miler and it was like the entire process of that hundred I do.
Speaker 3:I do the the races because I want the mental challenge, I want the physical challenge, I want to push my limits and like I don't mean it as like I don't want it to sound any way other than it probably does. I mean, it sounds dumb to say a hundred miles is not hard, but it just started to like Sparta. Why sign up for that one? Why sign up for Arizona? I started to have I am going to finish there's just going to be a few bad moments Like it's not going to be that big of a deal, especially when it's not trail, because road you just have to physically get there. Trail you might break something or roll something or you know you still have a 10,000 foot climb ahead or whatever. So, long story short, signing up for Sparta, with the time cutoffs that they had, like there was a real chance of failure. And like with Jesse Itzler talking about the Misogi and you know there needs to be a real chance of failure.
Speaker 3:And so with Arizona, like I tried to sign up for Cocodona and they saw they sold out, like the week before, and I was like, well, as a first year event, let's, let's see what I'm made of, sign for that one. And I was like, well, I guess I should do an, you know something, trail. So I did Georgia Death Race earlier this year and then I signed up for Fierce Dragon 200 here in Georgia. So just trying to like backfill, I guess a few races till I get to Arizona.
Speaker 3:But I just, you know, when you sign up for ultras, like you do a marathon, because I was in that world for so many years chasing PRS like, yes, nobody can, not everyone can qualify for Boston or not everyone can, you know, run an Olympic speed, but everyone can finish a marathon If you go through the training 99% success rate of of getting to that finish line. So with ultras, I think the thing that attracts me the most is the, the DNFs Like this is this is something that's truly hard, that is really worth committing to the, the pain and the effort and the training and all that stuff. So I think with Arizona I couldn't have couldn't think of anything that scared me more than running 309 miles in, basically, the Arizona desert over a week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's Rob. Did you look at this race, the Arizona Monster 300?
Speaker 2:I didn't go to the details. I've heard of it, though.
Speaker 1:Not too familiar with the details, but they managed to already get 362 entrants and they already have a wait list of 37 people.
Speaker 3:You want to see how crazy it is? This is the book for the race. I mean you get like a 40 page book. Aid stations are 20 miles apart, a hundred degree temperature swings. You know. You basically start on the coast or in the uh border of mexico, in the arizona desert, and go 300 miles is this an aerovipa race destination?
Speaker 1:oh, destination trail destination trail man 41 000 feet of elevation gain. You gotta put it on the list, casey, now that one's not on the list. Rob, that is not on the list. Yeah, so what gave you, like because I know it's not cheap, because I I know andrew registered and I think I saw he might have posted entering, and I know it's not cheap to enter I would like to know what gave you the confidence to do this. Like you finished some 100 miles and that's very difficult. I have yet to finish one, but I feel like at mile 70 of a hundred mile race, you're like this is horrible. This is like I still have another 50K to go, almost 50K. I know not the right math, but you get what I'm saying. How do you go from that to? I want to run 309 miles in the desert. I actually didn't even know you were registered before we set this up. So this is awesome. But how did you go from that? What was the mental process there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think sometimes pontificating about how hard something is going to be adds to its lore. If you the original steps of Pheidippides, and the legend says that he started sunrise and got to Sparta before sunset the next day. So they give you 36 hours to run 153 miles, and that as an even pace cutoff. I guess that's pretty challenging, but they actually grade it to be faster on the front side and slower at the end, obviously. And so you have to do your first marathon in four hours and 45 minutes or they pull you off the course. Oh, your hundred miler is just shy of 23 hours, and those are not easy times. But the more you, the more I thought about the pace, the harder it became. Long story short, I think. I think sometimes like, the more impressed I am with a race, I feel like the harder I make it. And I'm not saying that 300 miles is easy, I haven't done it, so we'll see how it goes. But I think sometimes like, okay, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time? Everybody knows the story. But like you know, how do you? How do you run 100 miles? I mean, you said it, 70 miles in, you still have 30 more miles, you know and so like, if you put 30 miles in your head, that is further than any of us really want to run at any one clip, as opposed to, like it's 300 miles.
Speaker 3:So I'm doing the 200 in January in Georgia and it's a 40 mile, you know, 20 out, 20 back, five times, um, and you have five days to do it. So I'm setting it up as a training run for monster and I'm just, I'm going out in the morning and I'm doing my 40 miles and then I, I, my house is not far from there, so I'm going back and I'm going to shower and sleep and then wake up and do it again and so, hey, I'm not running, I. So for me, I'm not running 200 fierce dragon, I'm doing. I'm doing 20 miles, I'm turning around, you know where I'm going, six miles to the aid station.
Speaker 3:You know, and I think, I think with monster it's so big, it's so long, it's such a monster that if you try to, if you try to like, think about that as one challenge, you can't even sign up for it. It cripples you. My thing is okay. I've got seven days, 55, 60 miles a day, or 50, 50 miles a day, and I finished the race. Let's deal with the small goals and work on just hey. Each day, do what the day you need to do, and then the next day takes care of itself.
Speaker 1:I don't even know if I'd be able to figure out how to start training for that Rob. I guess just go hike every day.
Speaker 2:I think it's a solid plan, though, because I put it on the list and then I scratched it off.
Speaker 1:You put the Arizona Monster 300 on the list.
Speaker 2:I did, and then I scratched it off and then I heard how do we do it? 50 miles a day, take one bite at a time. So I put it back on the list.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's back on the list. It's back on the list. If you sign up for that one, I don't know that I can throw my hat into the ring. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:It's not 300. It's 309. That nine I'm not going to look forward to that. That's going to be. Not that it's the last nine, it's the fact that I've put 300 in my head for a year. I've still got nine more miles.
Speaker 2:We shouldn't be allowed to do that. There's a 40 miler that we run every year, but it's really 42 and a half, and just that two and a half really pisses me off. It shouldn't, but there's just two and a half extra that they're not accounting for.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if you called it the 310 miler I, you know I'm in 300, that's a nine miles at 20 minute miles.
Speaker 1:You know that is a long time. Yeah, that's, that's quite a while. That's good. It's not fun, it's a challenge, is what it is. And yeah, hats off to you for even signing up and attempting it. And I actually am stunned looking at the ultra sign up for it. Now the Arizona monster has gotten that. I guess I'm not. I know enough people in this that, hey, there's people out there that'll do whatever. So, hey, hats off to you if you're out there signed up for the arizona 300 monster, which is 300 miles. Yeah, I don't even know. Yeah, I guess you just got to come up with like you said. You got to come up one bite at a time, aid station to aid station, figure out a plan and attack it from there, and don't forget your trekking poles I think with, uh, with those, these big races, I I spend a lot of time on on youtube, on podcasts and stuff.
Speaker 3:Like that's part of my, that's part of my training is just it's almost like research or whatever, just listening, mental training, whatever, and doing 200, doing a 300 or you know wherever it is Like the more, the more time you spend just kind of listening to the sport and listening to the, the people that are in it. It's just listening to Pete Kosnick's, you know, journeyman running and just like crossing the country. It's like, hey, if I maintain effort, if I keep effort down, he said I can, I can basically run for forever, you know. And so, if you think about it, tampa, for 35 miles through the finish, I walked, my stomach had turned on me, you know, just went sideways, but so stomach being the issue, you know that was like that, that litt. So stomach being the issue, you know that was like that, that littlest component of it, physically, like my muscles, I could run the next day, you know, like I really wasn't that beat up because I had 35 miles of walking at the end of the race, you know.
Speaker 3:And so, like the monster, the two hundreds, you know, whatever, it seems like the thing that, like Sally McRae when you know, I watched hers with the three 200s and just the state of her feet it seems like you have to deal with the small stuff so it doesn't become the big stuff. And so for the 300s it's okay, and I haven't been there. So you know, we'll see. This will be like a little time capsule. We'll see how it goes in a couple of months. Hey, if there's something going on with your feet 20, 30 miles in, you better deal with it now so that it's not an issue. And if you can protect feet, if you can protect stomach, I don't think that your muscles are going to wear out first. I think that those things and sleep and those kinds of things are going to be the problems.
Speaker 1:That's definitely one thing we learned out at Western States. Crewing was just noticing, like certain people that were very in tune with taking care of themselves along the way, they were going to eat what they needed, cool themselves off, change shoes and socks as necessary to not let anything build into an issue before. I mean pretty much letting it rip at mile 80, but that's fine, that's 20 miles left to go. I guess. Very similar in a 300, you just have to be a little bit more careful. Something a little bit of a foot issue at mile 30, you need to stop immediately, pull the sock off, take care of it Vaseline, whatever and then move on. But yeah, that's one thing that I've definitely learned, especially from this podcast, rob, is just how to manage, I guess, a race more than just going out running and gunning, would you say. I agree.
Speaker 2:I mean the pros that we've had on. They have a solid plan and they're just able to execute on the plan. They seem to do pretty well right, unless something you can't plan for happens, like stomach issues or you step in a hole and twist your ankle. But if those things don't happen, it's just about executing on a plan, that they put a ton of time into the research and they know exactly what to do. I don't think we do that very well, casey.
Speaker 1:No no, we're not good at that. Yeah, they also do a very good job of training their stomach too.
Speaker 2:We exercise our stomachs. You know, beer pizza, beer pizza.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. It's the same exercise in. In theory it is, I guess. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. We'll have to do further research needed on that, Rob. Yeah, so what's your goal for the? The Arizona 300, Lucas, Just like me, just a finish would be beyond any kind of goal I have. But what is your goal for it? Do you have anything specific?
Speaker 3:No, I think I think the more pressure I put on finishes, the harder they've become. The more fun I've had in races have been the ones where it's hey, just just get to the next stage station. I ran with all the roads and with all the Florida and all of that stuff, like I I really would love to run bad water Wasn't selected. This year. Been working on the resume this year, you know, like really trying to uh, to get on that start line and you know he's got his preferred races, so I've been kind of trying to check off those and to get on the. To get on the start line. It went from three, uh minimum of three hundreds to four last year as they were like releasing the, the you know qualifications, and so I was like crap, I don't, I don't have a fourth, even on my schedule.
Speaker 3:Three weeks notice, jumped on a plane, went to Ireland, ran a hundred miles, finished 17, 11, uh. Fifth, sixth, I don't remember what the placement was, just had a blast, found a couple of guys along the way. We ran 60, 70 miles together and uh, I mean really we ran 80, 90 miles together. I mean there were parts where we weren't together but you know there weren't expectations of some strong finish and it just was. It was just fun. You know, I think sometimes we get so in our heads about like nutrition and pace and exercising perfect calories or whatever. It's like we we miss the forest through the trees, like we did pay money for this. Andrew Glaze, smile, you're doing it wrong. You know, like that's that's so much easier said than done in the dark points. Running has taken me around the world, you know, and runners taking me around the world, and it's just like if you, if you miss that, it's like you almost missed the whole reason for the sport.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you definitely get around. I'm looking at your, your Strava. I mean Georgia, florida, cincinnati, california, greece, for several days days run some epic places.
Speaker 3:You got a favorite oh man, I think ireland as just a a place like I, I don't know it's, it's uh, the weather I'm, I'm a big fan of running, uh, you know, cold and rainy, you know it tends to be that a lot there. But I think, I think, I just, I think I just love running in new places and so, like the, the Phoenix, uh, the Garmin Phoenix has the like round trip mapping and I use that all the time. You know I'm, I'm in a new city with. So, runner, the you know my apparel brand it takes. We do a lot of expos around the country and so my, my favorite part of that is the fact that I get to run in all these places. So I go to the city, I do the expo, I try to run the race and then come home and in the meantime I grab my watch and say, okay, I want to go on, seven miles Builds a course for me, so I'm like racing myself around the country.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I mean, I only went 30 days back into your Strava, just so the listeners know work, I always chafe.
Speaker 1:There's always like a thigh rub, something rubs. But you did come up with an awesome pair of shorts, lucas, that, like I said, I still wear them. What inspired you to do that? How did you decide I need to change something in running shorts no seams, I feel like and I could be wrong here but you have the longer, like almost compression shorts built in, rather than just like the little diaper that a lot of running shorts have Diaper. Yeah, I cut that thing out. It was a lot of times, to be honest. I think you kind of changed it a little bit. We definitely did. And what inspired you to do that?
Speaker 3:I have a background in service industries. I've owned an insurance agency for a long time. And in service industries, I've owned an insurance agency for a long time and I started getting into running. I ran a couple of miles here and there. I ran a country cross country team in high school for a year. Uh, you know, it was fun, but it was a year. And then I moved on and fast forward. Uh, graduated 2009 from high school. Didn't really run after that until 2000. Um, and that was like, oh, seven, I guess that I I ran cross country.
Speaker 3:Then 12, I signed up for a marathon and it might be akin to like a, an Arizona monster at that point in my life, like just trying to do something crazy, but I didn't follow up with corresponding action, so barely trained, whatever. And so finished in the med tent, finished. Finished in the med tent, finished. Went to the med tent. You know IV and severe dehydration and five mile or five hour. You know, I said I want to do it in five hours. I did it in four 59, 34,. You know I mean just sprinting the last quarter mile to try and cut it. You know, got into running in 2017,. Uh, ran New York city Cause I was like, if I'm going to do one marathon, I think that's the one I want to do. And I ran it. The shower afterwards was just hell. You know, it was just chafe city.
Speaker 3:Uh, you know, went on a journey to find my I guess my brain works like that, like if there's a problem I try to solve it bought 30 different pairs of running shorts, hated all of them. You know, there's gotta be a better way. After every long run, you know cause I'm just I'm I'm very like most ADD with like running. Like I can't get into triathlon cause it takes too much gear. You know, I have to maintain all this swimming gear and all this biking gear and a bike and it's, it's just a lot, you know, whereas running it's like it's hard enough for me to keep my watch charged, my headphones charged and a pair of running shoes that I can run with. You know what I mean. And so Vaseline and body gliding, and I would always get three miles into my run and be like I forgot to do that and then come back and have to scream in the shower. And so COVID happens I'm still running, but like I can't, can't really travel as much whatever, and so I went on a journey to see if I could solve running shorts and I think there's some very simple fixes.
Speaker 3:Where my background is not apparel I didn't go to a fashion university, I have no design background and it definitely showed with our first pair of shorts but from a function perspective, I think we built something that tends to work a little bit better than the average short out there. We use a nylon versus a polyester, so it doesn't have grit, so the fabric doesn't chafe you. And then we deleted the seams for everything that touches your skin, because everything athletic went to a specific seam that just turned into sandpaper. So I'd finish runs and I'd literally have like a line down my leg. We, we kickstarted in 21, 22,.
Speaker 3:We did all the major marathons in America trying to like, promote it and see if it was, if it, if I was the only one or if other people were dealing with the same thing, and we did okay, and and then we've been, we've been promoting them on the road. We've hit 35, 40 marathon expos across the country over the last two years and and have been able to build a running community, be a part of the running community ultras to five Ks, marathons to half marathons, everything in between, to 5Ks marathons, to half marathons, everything in between. It's been some of the funnest two years of my life, just being that much more ingrained in the running community.
Speaker 1:Awesome that you did it. Like I said, you definitely changed something in them. This is not at all an advertisement in any way. I had you on because I bought your shorts. It's the only pair of running shorts that I wear. I wear other shorts with underwear underneath, but I hate running shorts because I always gotten chafed or there's like a seam or the little diaper thing that rubs you the wrong way. I applaud you and I guess it's the nylon. I mean, mine aren't worn. They've been through hundreds and hundreds of miles over, I'd say probably, though they have to have over 2,000 miles on them at this point easily. I mean so they are worn, like where my legs do rub, but I'm still putting miles in them, you know. So you're making a good product. I wear them. My girlfriend she maybe doesn't like when I wear them out somewhere. That first pair, yeah yeah, you know, maybe not a fan but of that, but I, I, I truly do enjoy them.
Speaker 3:so you know, you see, we got to get you.
Speaker 1:We got to get you another pair yeah, I I think, um, are you going to be down in in, uh, disney for the okay sweet, she's running the disney marathon. So I will be, I will be there. Um, if you need another salesperson, maybe I'll hop in and try and sell a couple of pair of shorts for you. See if I can see if I can sell some apparel. What do you think, rob Think I can sell some apparel.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you'll do quite well. I think that's all I do Just talk about. Talk about the fact that they work for running long distance. The only plug is you know, all of our stuff is a uh, a lifetime warranty. We call it a sweaty guarantee. We're not trying to be we're not trying to be the thing that sits in the back of your closet that you won't throw away Cause you spent too much money on it. We want the thing we want to be the thing that comes out of the dryer and immediately you put it back on and go use it. And so our sweaty guarantee will will take back anything at any period of time. If you don't like it, you can send it back to a sweaty. We'll give you a full refund.
Speaker 1:Can I still get a full refund after 2,000 miles?
Speaker 3:If you feel like our product wears out before you think it should have, I will replace it with a new pair or I will refund you your money entirely. I mean, and truly you know it's obviously not a good business model if your product is not good. We've been selling for two years, We've sold a lot of running shorts and we have had 37 returns. That I hated. I hate propaganda marketing. I hate hand mixed or when that's how everything is done, or hand sewn when everything is hand sewn or you know, organic being a buzzword, you know, I just I can't stand that, that kind of thing. And so our stuff, if I'm, if I'm full of crap, you can send it back sweaty. We give you a full refund. We always.
Speaker 3:We have three commitments nylon to your skin with no seams, so that you know, don't, you don't chafe when you run with our product. Number two is multi-pocket designs. So if there are uh, you know we have a compression short that has seven pockets. We have our, our kind of our, our staple short, with our, we're coming out with a four inch, we have a six inch, we a seven inch, all of which have four pockets, two zipper, two liner, you know. And then the third one is that lifetime warranty. So if there's any anything that doesn't work for you, we'll swap sizing, We'll, we'll take it back sweaty, you know everything in between.
Speaker 3:So if it's, you know, with our, with our gear, it's really been crowdsourced over the last two years, which is so fun.
Speaker 3:We've been at all these expos getting feedback hey, I don't like this, I do like this, hey, could you do this or whatever. And as I'm there at all these expos hearing this feedback, and then I'm flying to China or Mexico or Atlanta or wherever we're having it produced China or Mexico or Atlanta or wherever we're having it produced I'm taking it from customer to factory and getting product from it. So the big guys you know all the big brands they literally have it printed, designed with the exact specifications of pro athletes. And I'm not a pro athlete and when I have bottles being handed to me and I need very different gear, if I'm going to be running a two hour marathon, then if I'm going to be running a three or four or five or six hour marathon, and so, having been in in those incredibly longer times than the pro and having run a little bit quicker, I, I try to try to build for us as runners, not as elite athletes.
Speaker 1:That's a very good point, because I think there's a lot of times where the shoe companies, the apparel companies, they don't realize that me, rob, you, lucas, we're going to spend five or six hours in these shoes. We're not three hours and 15 minutes in these shoes for a 50K or two hours and 12 minutes for a marathon. We're in these things for a lot longer time. So things need to fit maybe a little bit better or a little bit smoother on the skin, because five hours is a lot of time to irritate a lot of sensitive parts, right, rob? Oh yeah, that's awesome, lucas, and certainly appreciate your time here and just chatting about running. It's cool to talk to another entrepreneur. You know about starting up the dream and making a change to a product to better suit your needs. That's, that's awesome. I just want to thank you for coming on the hobby jogger and we certainly appreciate your time.
Speaker 3:Man, I can't thank you guys enough. I, I do the, I do the runner events so that I get to spend two, three days just talking about running and I don't annoy my wife for, you know, a couple of days. So anytime, anytime you want to talk about running, uh, I, I'm, I'm your guy.
Speaker 2:So, lucas, uh, where can our listeners find you?
Speaker 3:on the runner side. All of our like social media website, it's all the same, it's just runnerrun, r? U N U Rrun or run your run. And then my personal social media is just at Lucas Hathaway. Instagram is usually the the one that I spend the most time on. If, uh, any of your listeners, or if you guys are, are uh running any of the any of the big city races, uh, in the marathon space, uh, see, if, see, if you can't find us, we're, we're doing a ton this year, we'll be, we'll be all over. Be at route 66 next weekend, I'll be. Uh, disney, honolulu, east coast, west coast, disney, everywhere that there are big races to have a lot of fun. So, thank you guys. So much for the time, thanks for the invite.