The Hobby Jogger Podcast

E31 | Wil Walmsley Discusses Preferences of Road Versus Trail Running

Hosted by: WeeViews & Branch Sauce

From muddy trails to scenic city routes, our discussion explores the distinct joys and challenges between trail and road running. Relive the laughter from a muddy finish line mishap and iconic trail races like the Gorge Waterfalls, which keep capturing our imaginations. Even as we tip our hats to the allure of city marathons, it's clear our hearts beat for the adventure and scenery that trail races offer. Plus, we emphasize the importance of a shared race calendar to keep our running ambitions in check.

Hear about our inspirational encounters with coach Connie Gardner and how these connections have fueled our running goals. As we wrap up, we look forward to upcoming trail races and potential new guests, all while keeping the spirit of camaraderie and community at the center of our running journey. Tune in for this exciting episode filled with laughter, stories, and the undeniable bond formed through running.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of Hobby Jogger and Friends. I am Casey Koza, I am the host here today and I am once again joined by my good friend, Mr Rob Myers. Rob, how are you?

Speaker 2:

I'm doing well. We've got Veterans Day tomorrow, as we record this on a Sunday evening.

Speaker 1:

Yep, yep, getting it done on a Sunday evening maybe the first time we've done it on a sunday evening. I I don't really remember, but we're joined by a good friend of ours. He's fresh out of the salt mine, because the salt mines apparently are not open on the weekends. Mr will walmsley, will, how are you doing?

Speaker 3:

I'm doing pretty well. Second attempt today, trying to try to have the brewery earlier. But hey, made some pierogies and we're back right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, made some pierogies. We're back. Bad read on my part. I thought I had put out the correct time to do it at. Try and do one on location at Missing Falls Brewery Didn't work out this time. Next time it will, and that's what we look forward to. So Going to try and do one on location and those guys are super cool great beer, great food and, hey, I mean, I got to hang out there for a couple beers. So never a bad day for that, right? Well, we're doing a test run, right? Yeah, we have. We have a proof concept, we have will will sitting there in front of a microphone. So it can happen. We just need to.

Speaker 3:

You know, I need to properly plan it, which is yeah, it's even cool seeing the bartenders and all that turn down the music acting concerned like is this quite enough? Other patrons coming over? Are you guys making a podcast?

Speaker 1:

we're trying to. We're trying to, but casey messed up the time of the podcast so it didn't quite work out. But yeah, they're super cool. I actually talked to Sean, one of the head brewers there, and he would be down to do an episode sometime if we ever want to discuss the makings of beer and the science kind of that goes into it.

Speaker 2:

That's a resounding yes, we do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we all drink beer after a run, a race, whatever, so I figure that's probably at least close enough to running that it would make sense to have an episode on.

Speaker 3:

It does, can definitely get his opinion on why beer is such a good recovery beverage.

Speaker 1:

That will be asked. So at least we will have some sort of tie-in to running. But I think Mike he said Mark would definitely do it Mark likes to talk, so, uh, I'll have to follow up with them and, who knows, maybe we'll find a you know, another special guest to join us for for a beer episode. We'll see so good things to look forward to in the future. But last episode, on uh will you were mentioned a few times. We had uh ab Abby Herring on from West Virginia. She took place. She took eighth place, seventh place, rob, do you remember? Yeah, I think it was so. She was top 10 in the Columbus marathon and for most of the race. Well, she actually ran with you. So did you? Did you see Abby out there, did you?

Speaker 3:

did you notice her? Didn't know who it was at the time. Did you notice her? Didn't know who it was at the time, but no, I did notice her. I think around like mile eight or nine I saw what I assumed at the time was like a mom and her daughter running together, Mom being this CrossFit buff girl absolute badass, you know and the daughter like wearing blue. And then by about the half marathon after well, yeah, mile eight or nine, me I was like, oh, that's cool, those two are fast as hell, just freaking cruising. Um, I think at the time I was doing like 625 pace and seeing people just fly right by it. A lot of respect for that.

Speaker 3:

Uh, and it wasn't too long after that saw the other lady, the older, like buff crossfit girl, make a left to go for the half marathon and I was like, oh, I guess they didn't know each other, maybe I don't know. But um, yeah, abby at that point was really far ahead, didn't really see her. And then, maybe mile 23, coming back into downtown columbus, ended up seeing the same runner, like passing her on my way back into Columbus and closed pretty good. So, yeah, I had no idea who that was until I saw, like on my group on Strava when it got posted Like hey, you ran with some people and recognized the name. I'm like, wait, that's Caleb Bowen. Like this is one of the athletes he coached. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was pretty cool tracking both of you um just how close you actually were and you know, right together. I was like, oh, I was. I looked through some pictures that she had posted from from friends online to see if I could get one of both of you in the same picture, but I could not find that, so my detective skills were either lacking or there was none.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I didn't see any with, yeah, a lot of the photos either, weren't that? No, no, marathonphotocom is where I saw a bunch and I didn't see any with a whole lot of people around me.

Speaker 1:

First time running a road marathon, correct, yep, first road marathon. You've never run a road half marathon. Nope, never really done any road race Haven've never run a road half marathon.

Speaker 3:

Nope, never really done any road race. Haven't done a 5K or anything like that. You ever run a 5K? No, I take that back. The only road race I have done is the COSA four on the fourth beer mile in Akron. I've done that the past two years.

Speaker 1:

That is a prestigious event.

Speaker 3:

I was very let down because I thought I've done that the past two years. That is a prestigious event. I was very let down because I thought I was the winner the first time I ran that but I was disqualified. Bogus rules, but it's a quality event so I can't argue with a race director that puts on an event like that. Then this past year I ended up losing to two people. I still question whether or not either of them should have been disqualified, but I won't go into the details on why.

Speaker 2:

That is an amazing race, unforgettable Top five. Everyone should strive to get approved to run that race. That said, you're telling me you haven't run a single turkey trot. Not a new year's or christmas race, no 5k.

Speaker 3:

considering your family, you haven't run a single 5k for any holiday uh, it's kind of funny that you say, like, for my family, yeah, I guess kind of going into it. So, yeah, my brother runs, uh, he's definitely an above average runner. Um, twin brother, he's okay, he's above average. I Twin brother, he's okay, he's above average. I'd say he's better than okay. But yeah, he's been a runner. I've gone to all of his running events but he's the only one in our family that runs. We have an older sister. She doesn't run. Parents, they don't run.

Speaker 3:

I played football and rugby. Yeah, I played rugby for almost 20 years. I didn't get into running till beginning of 2021. And that was mostly to try getting in shape for rugby here in Ohio. We quit playing in October, november, and then by the time we start up again with rugby in March, it's like you know, show up and you're not in shape and it sucks. And with the way rugby's calendar goes, you have your fall season is where you're playing your league to make playoffs, and then the spring is's calendar goes you have your fall season is where you're playing your league to make playoffs, and then the spring is where the playoffs actually happen. So our team here in Akron was starting to get really good and didn't have time to wait to get in shape, so that was the biggest reason why I got into running. That's a solid explanation.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. And really our friend Kim Kim Roy, frequent co-host of the show, she's the one to blame for all the trail running. We were talking about this the other evening and she is actually the nexus point of us running trails. When she started to date our friend Grant, she was running trails. We started running trails Right Will, right will. I mean that's that's the first time I ran trails, she probably got you into it.

Speaker 3:

Um, cory langenbach got me. But like I was starting to peak interest into running because I think the year before that for covid, yeah, would randomly see grant just running around portage lakes. I think I reached out to him a couple of times but never worked out. We're like, hey, we're gonna go run together. But then the following year cory got me out and I don't know, cory laying box, the one that got me into it and then it was fun, in the summer, started running with grant, met kim and then, uh, was it end of that bigfoot? I think that's what got you to get out run your first trail race mud festa, big foot 2021 yeah, rob, rob, you've run big foot.

Speaker 1:

It's uh, I have twice. It's an interesting race down there. It's a ton of people, cool, cool trails, I mean, other than the foot of mud that you have to slog through at times. I mean it's definitely wet, it's definitely muddy, it's always cold. So, yeah, I saw I did that and then decided, well, this is sounds like a fun sport, let's, let's keep doing it.

Speaker 3:

I love running that Cause now whenever I see mud anywhere else, like we went out to gorge waterfalls uh, was that? Yeah, spring of 23, spring 23. Yeah, it was so a year and a half ago. We went out there, right. And you hear other people complaining about the mud and I just think back to bigfoot and it's like dude, bigfoot, it's suction cup. You see people losing shoes in the mud, go out to gorge. I'm hearing other people complaining about the mud. I'm like it's barely covering my lugs, like maybe a couple slick parts. But anything that kind of just gave me a little bit positivity of like dude, I've had so much worse here in the midwest in ohio, like the mud out here in oregon for gorge it's, it's nothing. Let the other people get down and negative about it. Like this is gonna be my positive moment.

Speaker 1:

The change in what mud actually is after that race is significant, Because I remember, yeah, people out at Gorge were complaining oh, it's so muddy and I'm like, yeah, actually you don't know what mud is, because there was not a spot of mud on that course.

Speaker 3:

Did you fall at Gorge?

Speaker 1:

No, I think I stayed upright at Gorge. That's one of the few, that course. Did you fall at gorge? No, I think I stayed. I stayed upright at gorge. That's one of the few that I have. I didn't catch a toe and go over, but yeah, no, I stayed upright at gorge. But yeah, no mud at gorge. For sure, it's rains too much for there to be mud I was, uh, almost clear on that whole race without falling.

Speaker 3:

And then, right at the finish line, I remember seeing the 100k, like uh, watching that the day before, and dylan bowman from free trail he was like announced, like oh, how cool is this? Someone went up and dunked at the finish line where they just jumped up and touched it. So as I was finishing the 50k, I had that in my mind like, oh, that'd be cool, just jump up and, hey, dunk it. And been raining all day and on grass as soon as I go to jump, my feet just wiped out underneath me right at the finish line. I just ate crap.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I've meant to follow up with either, with Ryan, to get that footage.

Speaker 3:

It does exist. Dylan Bowman made sure to find me after the race and show me it. Yeah, and it's out there. Race and show me it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's out there. I need to get it. It's like there's a Pruder film. It does exist. It's out there.

Speaker 3:

They asked for my approval if they could use it to put up for like a reel or something I'm like. Absolutely I don't care if I look like an idiot, that's fine.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was awesome.

Speaker 2:

I percent. Yeah, it was awesome. I thought it was one of your best highlights I've ever seen of you.

Speaker 1:

So, oh yeah, the people gotta see that. Make sure you get a copy of it. We need it, rob, we do we also. That's another cool race like we got to go back to. We were talking about that today, rob, you know races we have on the calendar to do or and I know you got injured so you didn't get to participate in the race. But you know that's one I'd like to do the 100K.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I really think January 1, we need to pull up a shared calendar and really, like, have a lottery system. Let's put the 20 races out there that we all want to do, yeah, and somehow whittle it down to like five or six for the year, because there's a lot of them.

Speaker 1:

There's too many, there's too many, there's too many. There is. There's so many, there's so many companies that do such a good job. You still have the local ones you want to support, but, like, for me, I can go 50K or longer, like four times a year. That's all I really want to do. Like not much more than that I don't know how will feels about that, but I imagine it's probably about the same right.

Speaker 3:

yeah, I'd probably say about three or four like marathon plus distances. I think after doing the marathon keep going back. You know, thought about before, but even more reinforced as far as like with trail races, like traveling to destination, destination places so much cooler, like gorge waterfalls, literally felt like running through the shire, whereas I'm hearing people you know been running with more road runners a lot and it's like, yeah, I want to do a major in berlin. Oh, it is flat, not a speed bump on that course. In the back of my mind I'm like it's just a road. There's roads in every city, like I'd much rather travel. Go see the alps or what's the one in the UK there, snowdonia, wales.

Speaker 1:

Yep, yep Over there in Welsh land. That's, yeah, I agree with you, I hate road running. Road marathons definitely takes a whole different skillset, I think.

Speaker 3:

But when you go out at, like, the New York marathon isn't much different than you know the Pittsburgh marathon or the San Francisco marathon, but the cool part about it is the excitement you don't get 50,000 people at a trail race Like and that's part I hadn't experienced until Columbus, which I think there were 3,600 in the marathon and 7,500 in the half marathon- oh yeah, there's way more people on the start line, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Well, maybe not more than that, many more than, uh, bigfoot, but you know there is quite a few at at those big city marathons. I mean, that is that's true, that is true.

Speaker 2:

Hey, do do whatever you like doing so 100, but I mean there is a huge difference, like the road, road running. Just it feels like a competition in a different way.

Speaker 3:

Right, you're just trying to beat the numbers, right, where a trail race really feels like you're going on vacation yeah, I think one person uh, actually him, I feel conflicted quoting this person uh, nick bear or whatever he was on a podcast and was listening to it and he talked about running versus racing and I use that kind of analogy, like when I do a trail race, it feels more like a run, like I'm challenging myself and it's as challenging as I want to make it. Like the trail by itself will be a challenge to finish, um, whereas for a marathon, the challenge is how hard are you going to race it? Like you know the distance, you know it's going to be relatively flat, the racing comes from who you're pushing against, how hard you push yourself. Can you hit these numbers? I don't know. And just having that mentality of running versus racing and I feel like for myself, with road running after this experience is a lot more. I understand that analogy a little bit, or that's how I feel about it.

Speaker 1:

Nick Bear, also a bigger guy, clydesdale, whatever we take that to mean. I don't know if there's an official category on it, but you guys compete in the same category. What's his marathon time?

Speaker 3:

I think he's run like a 239, but I don't know if he did that as a Clydesdale, I don't know. I mean he does his brand marketing myself, being bigger, I'm always curious what he actually weighs, but I have no idea. Yeah, what he posts Nonetheless, it makes me want to get better myself. And hey, there's someone else that's big and lifts weights. I want to run fast like them.

Speaker 1:

Well, you had a very impressive first marathon time. You did come in with a lot of knowledge. However, it wasn't like you just started running and then went out and ran a marathon. You've run 100K distance, 50k distance before, so you have a very good base of how to go that far. But did you learn anything that you're taking away for the next marathon? I learned a lot.

Speaker 3:

I mean, like I said, I've never done a road race. I haven't done a 5k half marathon. Uh, so, like that's where the racing part of like trail, like you have areas where you can stop, change your nutrition. You're more focused on the fuel, whereas I've never been like, how do I hold a hard pace? Um, really, even doing track workouts was all new. That experience, yeah, which. Getting into track workouts, I don't know how disciplined if I would have done it myself. You came to a couple of them with coach connie yeah, coach, connie's awesome, I it.

Speaker 1:

I was. So before we started doing them I was like that's stupid, that doesn't make sense to me, like just go run more, you don't need to. And then, after doing them, how much easier it becomes to run at a fast pace.

Speaker 3:

And that's how I felt like going into the marathon training block was fitness wise, aerobic base. I felt like you know pretty good with that, but I'm like trying to hold a fast pace, something that feels challenging. I'm like I can't do that for more than five minutes right now. That, I felt like, was going to be my biggest challenge. That's where doing the track workouts. You call me Norwegian because in the morning I do longer threshold runs. In the afternoon I would do a track workout on Wednesdays. I don't know it's what I can fit in my schedule. I made it know it's what I can fit in my schedule and make it work.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, you're a worker first. Well, a dad first and a worker second, and then running his third.

Speaker 3:

Everything goes around my daughter's dance schedule and my son's soccer schedule. Got to get them, pick them up from daycare, get them their sports. If I have a 30-minute window or a 45-minute window, that's when I try to get my easy miles in, and usually that involves waking up at like 4 am to get to the gym if I want to lift, go work, and then it's try to get a run if I get out of work at a decent time coach, constance connie gardner.

Speaker 1:

I had a great time going up there with her. She definitely, definitely knows how to push you. And something new, rob, you ever do any track workouts, it's been a while.

Speaker 2:

It was actually the last time. I think the last time was actually at the Stowe high school with Dave.

Speaker 3:

How long ago did you live in Ohio again? Four years ago, four years, four years from now, yeah, and I think this whole experience too, like I've got a whole new perspective on coaching as well, because for the most part it's like I don't feel like I need a coach. Like if I need a workout, I typically go and text, you know, jess brazo, my, my sister-in-law and or my brother, and hey, what, uh, what track, workout or not track, but like what kind of a tempo run should I do? And they'll usually come up with something that's short, easy, some ideas and it's like, oh, I might do that a little bit. It's like fart licks and stuff. But actually having a coach, I never really gave much thought to it. But kind of funny how I even got in contact with Connie, because June or July I had no idea who she even was, and find out by the end of it. She's an ultra-chill legend. Did you end up seeing her at Western States, casey, when we were out there in California back in June?

Speaker 1:

No, because I didn't know who she was. I had heard her name but I didn't know her, which is shocking since she teaches a mile away from my house. I mean, I run past there just about every day and kind of in the same community, and who was she out? Was she out there with Nikki as well?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah. So that's you know. Obviously we're out there crewing. You're doing Simone Gosselin and I was with my brother crewing for him, and at Forest Hill aid station we're allowed to go run with our runners. There's like two mile session right before the aid station, mile 62. And the whole day, like hey, people are cheering on Jim, go Jim. And right at the very start, before you even get into the busy street on Forest Hill, I recognize Nikki who, Amon Scullion, his girlfriend, like they're just well-known Akron celebrities in the running community here, both amazing people, amazing runners. And I was just like hey, Nicky and yeah, only two people probably the entire race that were cheering on myself instead of my brother. Even my parents and sister curse them. Not one of them gave me a cheer the entire day. They were just too busy cheering on jim, rightfully so he, he had a good day. We were cheering for you. Well, when you we were, you weren't at four still at that time yeah, I was, I was sitting right.

Speaker 1:

I was sitting right next to your parents.

Speaker 3:

Uh, pop-up oh, I didn't.

Speaker 1:

I didn't know if you're right yeah, we were there waiting for simone and, like the guy almost hit me in the head with his boom. Okay, yeah, so we just kind of moved out of the way and let him in. Yeah, just another thing you missed there, rob.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, right after it was like a couple weeks after Western States, though, got back in town and there's a project to OutRun which is fundraising 5K the awesome event here. That was going to be my first 5K I was going to try to do. Got awesome event here and, uh, that was going to be my first 5k I was going to try to do got to be aiming. You know that's the whole point of the race is to outrun aim and project outrun. Good luck, for whatever reason it was.

Speaker 3:

I was on dad duty, had the kids for the fun run and swatching them. I was talking with the aim in there. I'm like, yeah, it was great seeing nikki and and her mom out at western states. It was awesome. They treated me on the forest hill and he looked at me and he's like that's not Nikki's mom. I'm like that's Connie Gardner. I was doing what Double take at him and all of a sudden find out oh, connie Gardner has a Wikipedia page. It probably used to be longer, but got edited by a competitor that got jealous. You got to look out for that.

Speaker 1:

I've heard that happens. We wouldn't know anything about that.

Speaker 3:

No, no, no, allegedly I would never update someone's wikipedia page. I am not quite that petty. So anyway, I was walking over say hi to nikki shortly after that and she was staying next to connie and I was like, oh, you're wearing some western state stuff, we're out there. I'm like, yeah, you and nikki were both cheering me on and um, so just had a short conversation with there. But then a couple days later I was out on a run on a towpath and bumped into her and had a little bit more time to talk, since it wasn't at the fundraiser event that she was working at and going there.

Speaker 3:

It's like going races and I think all this year I'd been injured. Uh, like, last year I hurt my back and didn't have a whole lot of running. That's where I was kind of like, yeah, I feel like now is as good of a time as any. I don't have anything on the calendar. I might try to do a road marathon. She's got tons of experience running 24-hour races, marathons, 100-mile races. She's like all right, well, what time you got Any goals? I just respond back. I've always heard three hours seems like a great time to beat. Could see the wheels churning in her head and just responds back that's a good time you should go for that. Matter of fact, you should reach out to Nikki. She's about your speed. You two can go do track workouts At that point.

Speaker 3:

Reached out to Nikki, you know through the running community, and show up Wednesday and all of a sudden Nikki's there and Coach Connie, lined up, has a workout prepped. Hey, these are the splits I want you to do for your first four reps. And it was like that every single week. And one the accountability having someone to run with Nikki was awesome. Yeah, we'd bitch and moan every time we showed up. It'd be I don't want to do this, that's too fast. But that never worked out. We're just competitive people and push each other and we're beating every split that Connie put out for us, which at the end of a workout it's like gosh, connie, you don't believe in us. So that part was kind of funny.

Speaker 3:

But with Connie, like every week, we met up every Wednesday, whether it's 5 am or 6 pm, just depending on our schedule, and she'd see the splits and was like hey, that three hour time like you're doing pretty good, I think you should probably be aiming for 255. And then another month goes by and it's like, honestly, I think you go 250, 255. It's like I was. I think he'd go 250, 255. It's like, ah, I was thinking sub seven sounds pretty hard. Now we're talking about like 630, 640 pace to hold for an entire marathon. Like that sounds really daunting. And I think it was two or three weeks out.

Speaker 3:

She looked at me and you know you should be in the low two fifties but depending on how much you want to hurt by the end of the marathon, I think you could probably hit 248. Right now In my head I'm like that's 625 pace. That's stupid. No, no, but just her saying that had me in the confidence when the race was going. I'm looking at my watch and it's like, wow, I'm running 620, 625 pace, like all right when it gets hard at the very end, like how bad do I want to hurt?

Speaker 3:

And yeah, and every single track workout, she's talking through this mile what to expect? You know, mile 18, it's going to start feeling hard. These reps, how you're feeling in your last couple. That's going to be what mile 18 feels like. You're going to know that feeling At. At mile 23 you just got to pick one person and mentally, hey, can I catch them, reel them in and start using momentum and start moving forward. How hard you want to push yourself. And uh, someone like race day actually came. Like I almost felt like I'd mentally done the race, it was just executing it. I was like, oh yeah, this part's coming up, let's go and yeah, was.

Speaker 1:

That was an interesting thing. Like I mentioned before, that was the first time I had done track workouts and like I foolishly thought that they were silly to do, but now I certainly understand, you know, especially how she explained it to me. Talking to her, yeah, like the wealth of knowledge that Connie Gardner has is there's probably not a lot of people that have that much experience and knowledge as she does and hit these paces and like three weeks of doing them, it was a massive change.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, yeah, I'm just going over, like the mental coaching that she did. But yeah, from the physical actual track workouts. Um, I think when we started doing 90 seconds per 400 repeat, that was initially difficult and by the end it's like my warmup 400s were 86, 87 seconds and I mean it progressively got faster into the 70s. It's just weird that like 90 seconds three months out was hard to maintain and by the end of it it's like yeah, my warmup is faster than this right now for 400 repeat.

Speaker 1:

She's sharp, Rob. I think that might need to be. Our next guest is connie gardner yeah, most certainly.

Speaker 2:

Why don't you reach out after the episode here?

Speaker 1:

yeah, we got a good in. I think, dude, she's awesome she's awesome, uh.

Speaker 3:

And then, of course, like nikki, the entire time which it's funny I talked about doing a marathon, but if it weren't for nikki, I may not have been in Columbus, because, like, while we're doing track workouts she was kind of going through an injury. And then she's like, well, I don't have a whole lot on schedule. And she randomly like texts back and was like, hey, I would sign up for Columbus too. I'm like, yeah, I still need to do that. And a couple of days goes by and she, you realize, there's only like 100 spots left In the back of my head. I'm like I didn't even know a marathon could sell out. Like what do you mean? There's only 100 spots left. If it weren't for Nicky, I probably wouldn't have even gotten in to Columbus.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you skipped your hometown marathon here in Akron, ohio. Well, that was intentional, don't blame you. It's a hilly one, it's not a fast one.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, like if I were going for running and enjoying it love the hills a lot more but for trying to hit a goal time that would be very difficult. It's got a lot of elevation, a lot of climbs, and then the other part too was I didn't start trying to do a block until after our Burning River relay. So very tail end in July there, and timing wise, like Columbus, is an extra almost month of training that you can get. So Will.

Speaker 2:

What's next? What's next? We're going back to trail I guess what was next after that?

Speaker 3:

I hopped in last minute this past weekend in a trail, oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, rob Will took down the Fuzzy Fandango 25K this past weekend down in Mohegan I believe Correct it's down in Mohegan.

Speaker 3:

Mohegan, Loudonville, Ohio, so that's only an hour and 20 away from here, which every time I look at a map and talk about Mohegan, I'm like, ah, it's like two hours away, but then driving down there it's like it's a lot closer than that.

Speaker 1:

Great trails down there. You've run the marathon down there, right Rob.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I ran the Mo marathon and 2018.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean those are, those are excellent trails for sure. Like it's a, I need to get down there more to run. Especially Jeremy always, you know, asked us if we want to come down and run with him. So, Dude, those are going to be whenever it rains. Those are in way better condition than up here in kago valley and sand run. Yeah, the mud we have to deal with up here is just yeah, unlike what it is anywhere else.

Speaker 1:

I know for sure because, like I've, run laurel islands in the pouring down rain monsoon and it's not muddy, and here, as soon as it rains a little bit, it's just ankle deep mud and everywhere and for fuzzy, like that was on my I don't know, it was on my radar because back in march when we did super bowl, uh signed up for that.

Speaker 3:

That's in worcester. Uh, don asher was talking about fuzzy fandango and, yeah, come get a lodge. I'm like, oh, that sounds great. But then as it got closer I'm like, yeah, I don't know't know. But yeah, kind of reach out. Last minute got into the race this week, week of, and part of it's just like, yeah, I still got a little bit of marathon fitness, like let's go do it. And I think after Columbus with work, we had our annual plant shutdown. So for like the two weeks following Columbus, like I was working 12, 14 hour days in the salt mines and didn't get a whole lot of running in. So it was like, yeah, 50 K is a little too daunting. 25 K I think I can mentally do a 25 K.

Speaker 2:

So what is the 25 K? Is it just one loop out to the fire tower and back?

Speaker 3:

I don't know how to wear it, but it was a loop that was 15.5 miles.

Speaker 2:

Did you go out to the fire tower? I mean, you would notice a giant fire tower on the mow.

Speaker 3:

I noticed a lot of rocks. There was a bridge or two.

Speaker 1:

It was on top of a big hill. There's a fire tower.

Speaker 2:

Did you go up the dam? We did go up the dam.

Speaker 1:

Okay cool, you didn't have to go down the dam. Going down the dam was not fun. Okay cool, you didn't have to go down the dam.

Speaker 2:

Going down the dam was not fun. Yeah, the mow is even worse because you have to do the loop twice. So by the time you hit the dam for the second time, it's just not a good feeling.

Speaker 3:

I don't know Going up where those steep stairs are like. The higher you go up, it just keeps getting steeper and it's like all right now I'm climbing and taptoeing and it's right at like 14 miles in the loop so what's next?

Speaker 1:

I think david signed up for the bigfoot right I'm doing the bigfoot, yeah, and he's doing the bigfoot. And what is that? In december, december, yeah, I'm doing 10 miles so it might be the second weekend, december.

Speaker 3:

that might be another like week of I don't like signing up until like the last possible minute on stuff I don't like committing.

Speaker 1:

I will say I am not yet signed up for it, but I have a concept of a plan to to run.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I feel like if, uh, brandon, kim and David, you know, got the whole game going, I think there's a very high possibility. I'll probably be looking at nine, the kids and be like, well, there's a very high possibility, I'll probably be looking at now and the kids and be like, well, I'm going to be going down. Don't know if you guys want to come with or not.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's a nice game room at the lodge, so they'll have fun.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, nice area inside for them to hang out. It's not that far away, maybe hour and a half away. Yeah, not far at all, that's right down 77?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, 77. 77, whole way. So you got any plans outside of that for next year? I know it's, you know.

Speaker 3:

Still trying to hammer out between doing a 50K either at Black Canyon 50K or Big Alta 50K. So Black Canyon I think is middle of February and then middle of March is Big Alta, out in Marin County, california, black Canyon being Black Canyon Arizona. Want to do one of those two. I think we've got Jeremy and Don already signed up for Black Canyon. That one's kind of cool because you know, got family that lives there. But if I were to say which course would I be more excited to run? Probably Marin County because it's part of a country I've never seen before. If I were to say which course would I be more excited to run? Probably Marin County because it's part of a country I've never seen before. Yeah, so that would be one. Laurel Highlands on Ohio Pile that one I'm thinking of doing Again. Connie Gardner influence. Initially it's like 50K seems like it would be a great challenge. She just kind of looks and is like if you're, if you're gonna do it, just do the 70 miler.

Speaker 2:

It's very easy to say well, you have to keep in mind that my favorite race is a week after that and casey is committed to doing, which is highland sky right, which is as's a Caleb race and his backyard.

Speaker 3:

Is that June 21st 22nd?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, it's the weekend after Laurel, sorry.

Speaker 3:

There's a wedding in Michigan. I am committed to that weekend.

Speaker 1:

Am I committed to that too?

Speaker 3:

With Hunter.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, all right.

Speaker 3:

All right, johnson, I don't know it depends. How much does Hunter mean to you? He's been on our burning river relay team for three years.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I I think I might. I might, I don't know. I gotta see. If I'm committed to that, I I gotta ask. I know, rob, I'm sorry I didn't plan the wedding.

Speaker 3:

I didn't pick the date the chance of any trails at his wedding, though that is the flattest every time he's on Strava. All of his runs runs 10 miles with 12 feet of vert.

Speaker 1:

My watch throws bigger errors than he's got. Our local Firestone High School track has more vert than most of Hunter's runs.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I do three laps and it's already over 12 feet.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I didn't realize that was the same weekend. I have the save the date on the refrigerator. I don't know how I could have overlooked that, but I'm sure.

Speaker 3:

I would have heard about it. There's. There's no invite yet. It's just a save of the day. It is just the same the date, so it's and and then end of June would be going out to crew again for Western States potentially. Yeah, if my brother decides to run that again.

Speaker 1:

Rob, you're going to come out with us this year. I want to it's fun.

Speaker 2:

If the stars align, I'll be there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it is a good time. Hopefully front of the show, jeremy Pope, gets in. If not, hey, there's always a chance that some random Frenchman might need a crew once he comes over here.

Speaker 3:

So that's what I got to say. Like with Western States, this year this was probably the coolest experience, because every time I've gone out to Western to cruise in which two or three other times, and I've only known like Jim's friends and his acquaintances, but this year, man, it's like all my friends. I've only known like Jim's friends and his acquaintances, but this year, man, it's like all of my friends I've made. Uh, here it's like I saw more people out there at Western than I see at any of our local races. Like we had the Ohio guys like Jeremy Casey, david, um, rob was supposed to be there but didn't. Yeah, west Virginia with Caleb, his dad on PA. We had LG Mariana Caleb his dad.

Speaker 1:

I owned PA. We had LG Mariana.

Speaker 3:

Yeah yeah, we had a big crowd out there it was Mickey Eventually met Connie Yep, obviously Ryan Thrower, who, yeah, they had an event called TrailCon and I thought it was like Trail Comic-Con and dress up as your favorite trail personality and I had my Philadelphia Phillies hard hat or or a hat on a hard hat, just regular ball cap, baseball cap and glasses and some fake cameras.

Speaker 3:

And I didn't have the heart to tell you, but I thoroughly enjoyed watching you walk in there and it's just networking event which, by the way, in the interview that Jim had with Dylan Bowman and like I wrote on there like hey, I work for more insult, I work for more insult. Umbrella Girl went rains and pours and don't bones like no, that can't be right. Like Jim, does your brother actually work for Morgan Salt? And yeah, he has one job. And he's like, oh, I don't know, I don't have one. Like, oh, I don't know, I'm like dude, you only have one brother. You don't know where I work, I know where you work.

Speaker 1:

You work for hokan wahoo man you had just recently changed jobs, so we'll give. We'll give jim the benefit of the doubt on that one. He didn't know you were in the salt lines yet, so I've been there long enough.

Speaker 2:

You have been pretty salty lately, so I don't like this new job he has rob no I don't.

Speaker 1:

I don't get nearly the level of memes that I deserve during the day, because he's actually working and it's just usually it's a two-person show on the group chats and now it's just casey.

Speaker 2:

Well, I I can sympathize with Will Casey, because you and David are texting me the whole time when I have like 14 meetings. I'm trying to answer and look into a Zoom and actually talk. So no, I can relate.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. So my meme consumption from Will has definitely got down. His new job does not fit into my lifestyle.

Speaker 2:

We'll see, there's always a chance.

Speaker 1:

Maybe he'll take a promotion or something and have less to do work less well, work less work less delegate more work.

Speaker 3:

Less delegate more. One other one on the calendar would be uh, I didn't realize it was a qualifier or what the qualifying time was, just my knowledge on road running events how much you pay attention. But I think probably end the year after Laurel Highlands would be New York City Marathon.

Speaker 1:

They just had that, didn't they?

Speaker 3:

It would be next November or October, whenever it is.

Speaker 2:

I've never heard of that one. Is that a big race? I?

Speaker 3:

don't know. I've heard of Boston, but someone said New York City had a harder qualifying time. Never heard of it until then. I'm like eh, A lot of bridges.

Speaker 1:

Indeed. Not as many as Pittsburgh Never been to the Big Apple before. Really.

Speaker 3:

First time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you definitely did go once.

Speaker 3:

I mean, it's kind of like people from Ohio and out east. They're like, oh, I've never been west. I'm like I don't know. I grew up in the west like came to ohio, I've been to baltimore, I've been to dc philadelphia. Haven't been too many other places like on the east coast over there besides that sweet.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, hey, running takes you new places. You get to explore and expand your horizons. I know it's already taken me quite a few places I never would have seen, you know, had I not ran. So we look forward to you know well, black Canyons maybe I know Rob and I are going out to Canyons. Right, rob, you are signed up correct.

Speaker 2:

Yep signed up, Flight is booked, Airbnb is reserved and we will miss you. Will Wish you'd change your mind and come on out. Well, I can't.

Speaker 3:

I don't know, I think for myself or Canyons. I just can't mentally just get excited about that. It's like I go out to crew. Maybe if I was going for Western States, but going to that location I'm like I've been out there a handful of times Like I want to go somewhere else. New.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm like I've been out there a handful of times Like I want to go somewhere else. New, yeah, it's still new for me. I, I, I'm, I have no desire to run Western States, so for me it's like I get to run the course, that I'm going to go out and see it again. So it makes put a little bit better perspective of.

Speaker 3:

Super stoked to see you guys out there, though Excited to hear about your guys' experience, cause that's always fun.

Speaker 2:

Whether to see you guys out there, though excited to hear about your guys's experience, because that's always fun. Whether I'm sad or not, I get excited hearing what you guys do. You got to run black canyons, though I mean black canyons beautiful and that was definitely an experience I.

Speaker 3:

I got some fomo after last year with everybody else going and I'm just back here not running at all and hearing everybody else. That's why I'm like I don't want to go now. It's the first time I was actually like I want to do a race in arizona well, hit the registration button.

Speaker 1:

You know that's the easiest way to get us to to do something right, rob you people are around.

Speaker 3:

I think jeremy and don are already in it, so I think I'm leaning towards that. Maybe it'll be 2026. I look at big alta I like it.

Speaker 1:

That's the plan. Then that's the plan. Rob, Can you pull off the double canyons again?

Speaker 2:

I'll actually be in Hawaii at a wedding, but there is a chance if you lay the peer pressure on strong enough that I could maybe my return flight redirect it to Arizona. Beth would have a good time. Beth would be yelling at me, but she would have a good time. Beth would be yelling at me, but she would have a good time once we got there. Yeah, you always ask her for divness yeah indeed Tell us it's a hobby jogger related event and it's a work event, honey, I can't get out of it, sorry.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's work. You know, it's what you want me to do but we don't need to do. But thanks again will. We certainly appreciate your time. Hopefully our next guest will be connie gardner I if you could reach out to her for me, because it's someone I'd really like to have a conversation with, just outside of being on the track and her telling me to run faster and that I'm not tired.

Speaker 3:

So you know, outside of that oh, I don't think connie will have any issues. Uh, she'd probably love to do it, but I'll definitely ask her.

Speaker 1:

We appreciate that and thanks again, and we certainly look forward to your next appearance on the Hobby Jogger, whenever that will be. Thank you for having me Hobby Jogger out.