The Hobby Jogger Podcast
Welcome to The Hobby Jogger Podcast, where elite athletes and ham-and-eggers lace up their stories. We explore the common ground that running creates from the world-class runner to the hobbyist hitting the pavement, trail or treadmill. Expect a blend of inspiration, laughter and the shared joy that makes every step count. Join us on this journey, where every run is a story worth sharing.
The Hobby Jogger Podcast
E28 | Ethan Koza on Transitioning to Ultramarathons and his Upcoming Javelina 100
Discover the extraordinary journey of Ethan Koza, a runner who transitioned from college athletics to the world of ultramarathon racing. In this episode, Ethan shares how his experiences, from high school in Philadelphia to running at Lehigh and Temple Universities, have shaped his unique path and ignited his love for ultramarathons.
Get ready to be inspired by Ethan's story of perseverance, as he recounts his leap from 10K races to completing a grueling 100 miles. With a mentality of "ignorance is bliss," Ethan embraced the challenges of his first ultra-race, discovering the importance of camaraderie within the ultra-running community. Meanwhile, co-host Casey reveals his own preparations for the Canal Corridor 100 and explores the psychological and physical demands of ultra-running.
The episode also takes a fascinating look at Ethan's adventurous lifestyle, living out of his Subaru Forester, and his past experiences as a wildland firefighter. We discuss how these unique experiences contrast with the recognition gained through competitive running. As Ethan prepares for future races like Javelina and Black Canyon, we explore race strategies and celebrate the joy of pushing boundaries in the ultra-running world. Join us for an engaging conversation that offers insights into the mindset and dedication required for ultra-running success.
Welcome to this episode of the Hobby Jogger. I am your host, Casey Koza, and I am once again joined by my co-host with the most, Mr Rob Myers. Rob, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. I'm excited to talk to the FKK, to the what FKK Fastest known, koza.
Speaker 1:Easy, easy easy on that one there? Yes, so for this week's episode we have a guest currently living in Flagstaff, Arizona, previously hails from also my home state, also sharing the same last name as me. We have Mr Ethan Koza joining us tonight, today, whatever, Ethan, how are you bud?
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm doing great guys. How are y'all doing? Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, thanks for joining us. We certainly appreciate that, Rob. Thanks for making me feel bad already. We're 54 seconds in and Just setting the mood.
Speaker 2:Just setting the mood, teeing them up.
Speaker 1:So Ethan you are. We talked a little bit before, but you're originally from Philadelphia, correct?
Speaker 3:Yes, sir, that's correct, From the great city, some would say of the Liberty Bell.
Speaker 1:It is the city of the Liberty Bell. I don't think it is much of brotherly love there, as the name says. Not a lot, especially in the sports world yeah what high school did you go to?
Speaker 3:um, I went to council rock high school north, which is in newtown, pennsylvania. So newtown is, I want to say, like 40 minutes north of Philly, so definitely like in the suburbs. I was a suburb kid. High school was pretty awesome. We my cross country team won the team title for states my junior year and then we tied for states and lost my senior year. So there's a bit of a running connection out there. And then I decided to continue running in college. So I ended up my first year committing to Lehigh University, which is like a small private school in Bethlehem, pennsylvania. I ended up transferring after my freshman year to Temple, which is in Philadelphia. So I basically, up until just recently, have spent my whole life and budding running career in southeastern pennsylvania now you.
Speaker 1:You went to council rock high school. You said, I believe that school is mostly known for its wrestling, correct?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, big wrestling theater school to like penn state and lehigh. I couldn't tell you much like specifics about the history, but definitely like I had some friends who were like you know I don't know if all American is the right term in high school but like top tier wrestlers in AAA, you know, like from skinny dudes who probably weighed 120 up to like big burly dudes who are probably like 180, 190 in high school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Pennsylvania, for those that don't know, is a hotbed of wrestling, folk style wrestling. I don't know as much about freestyle, but growing up in southwestern Pennsylvania I do recognize the school Council Rock as having some studs in the wrestling world. Well, casey, you used to wrestle, right, correct, I did no kidding. Studs in the wrestling world, well, casey, you used to wrestle right, correct, I I did, I was no kidding yeah, I was actually.
Speaker 1:I was actually a little bit too small to wrestle by the time I got to high school. I believe we talked about that before. But yeah, yeah grew up wrestling. It's a sport I admire a lot and I know I still check, like pa wrestling stuff and I always see council rocks up there. So that's that's what rang that bell for me. And going to Lehigh Lehigh college, d three Correct.
Speaker 3:I think they're D one. Actually they were D one for running and I believe they were D one for wrestling. Then I don't think I don't know if you can like swap your different sports or not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean it's a small school, but it's a D1 wrestling school, yes, but it's a D3 size, I guess is what it was.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was like 5,000 kids, but a lot of top-tier wrestlers. Definitely more so than top-tier runners, you know yeah, so you ran in college yeah for lehigh.
Speaker 1:And then, uh, the temple, yeah, temple. Who's out in philadelphia? How did your college career?
Speaker 3:uh, not very good. Um, I wasn't a very whatever middle of the pack guy for cross country. My track career was not even worth mentioning. It just took me longer to mature and kind of figure out college racing and I ended up quitting the team, essentially at Temple my junior year. So I didn't even finish out a full four year D1 career. I want to say it was 2021. Covid, you know, things started falling apart personally and athletically and I was just like man, I got to let running go as well as some coaching stuff. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus or whatever, but there's just a period of time where I transferred because I thought like just program wasn't right for me and then I kind of realized like maybe I wasn't right for D1 running.
Speaker 3:So I kind of started like falling out of love with the sport and and then like COVID hit and, you know, my foundation of everything got shook and I was trying to do a lot of stuff and I kind of just had to like let go of running. And I was like ready to let go of it. I wasn't really enjoying training, like I wasn't competing well. This or that effectively fell off the face of the earth as far as mid-tier C1 programs are concerned. But then as soon as I quit the team, I like was like I need to run out all this pain and uncertainty and that's how I like covered ultra running.
Speaker 3:I lived in North Philadelphia, which is very far from any like full green trails, so I would run like five or six miles to like Belmont Park in South Central Philly and then I'd run around the park for a few miles to like get some quote, quote, unquote fresh air and like not have to look at sidewalk full of like needles and trash, and then I would run home. So it just ended up being a ton of easy mileage that I didn't even realize I was getting. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Math real quick, 21 years old, right.
Speaker 1:So you're out of school 21 years old, done with your college career, you decide and this is kind of fascinating because you took the exact opposite on your ultra signups, the exact opposite of most people you just said, hey, you know what I feel like running 100 miles, I'm just going to go run 100 miles at the Pine Creek Challenge. How do you make that jump from? You know, like I said, most people go up the ladder. Let's run a 10K and a 15. You just went straight into the 100. You just were like, hey, let's do it.
Speaker 3:Let's go for it all. It was mostly just ignorance. Really Part of it was like I'd always been told by friends and family like oh, the longer the distance, the better you are, kind of thing. Like I don't have any speed. I'm not even like a speed endurance guy, so like in college at regionals, the 10k on the cross country course like felt too fast for me. You know a lot like my roommates and everything.
Speaker 3:We were big into running culture so I was seeing people, you know, demolish 10 mile road races because broad streets in philly and I was seeing people out of college demolish the half marathon and the marathon like Leighton Young, for example, you know, just like guys like stepping out of college going to the marathon and I was like well, I can't compete with them at all, I don't really want to have to do workouts. I kind of just wanted to find something that was like I can just run easy and find my enjoyment for running again. And 100 just seemed like a really cool round number, you know, like a Benjamin of miles, and there just happened to be one kind of close. So I was like, okay, we'll do 100 miles see how that is.
Speaker 3:So it was like kind of just silly thinking that I could dump in and do it. But part of it was like the way I was brought up. Everything people said to me about my running was like the longer the run is the better, and I kind of just accepted it and started to believe them.
Speaker 2:So was that your first 100 miles period? Did you ever run 100 miles just in training?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was my first I ran, maybe like in training. I maybe ran a marathon, but that was my first race longer than 10 K. It was my first time having to like eat on a run. Um, it was my first time running like when the sun was down and then running through the day. So it was a lot of firsts, which is great, because ignorance was definitely bliss in that case.
Speaker 2:You went from a 10K to 100 miles. Am I hearing you right?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that is amazing.
Speaker 1:The exact opposite of what just about every other person in running has done. So I respect that, I like it, and it's the just go for it attitude which is, you know, to be commended for. Like you said, sometimes ignorance is bliss and I mean, yeah, that's awesome. Like I dude, I'm happy for you I appreciate it.
Speaker 3:I uh, I'm definitely glad it ended up being that way, because now like shorter races, you know, and I like to run like faster courses. I'm not like a huge mountain athlete who's out there for like all day, so like a 50 miler to me is seven or eight hours. It seems a lot more reasonable now instead of starting from like a 50 K and then working my way up to you know 50 miles kind of thing. So I appreciate that, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean a lot. I guess a lot of things seem a lot more reasonable after you. Just, you know, go out and run 100 miles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm still trying to wrap my arms around that. Like what was it like? Okay, this is the first time I've ever run 50 miles. This is the first time I've ever run 60 miles. It had to be a memorable run, for sure. There's a lot of firsts there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I will say the thing that was probably most memorable was I mean, there were a lot of memorable things like the people volunteering, you know, like the atmosphere of the race was exceptional.
Speaker 3:The thing I definitely remember the most is like I tried out a new pair of shoes for the hundred miler, which was a mistake, and then at mile 80, I ended up sitting down to change my shoes back to something I was more familiar with and I will never forget, for as long as I lived, the pain in my legs from, like trying to stand back up, trying to rally at mile 80 to get some kind of forward momentum.
Speaker 3:So the most memorable thing was like how painful that part of it was. And you know I don't, at least for these faster kinds of races that I like to do like I will never let myself sit down again because that was, I'm lucky, that wasn't game over for me, but there was, you know, a lot of memories in there. But you know a lot of memories in there. But I'll be honest, a lot of the miles kind of just have kind of melted together, like I couldn't tell you exactly how I was feeling at mile 35, or I couldn't tell you exactly what was going on in my mind at mile 62. I just kind of remember like the progression of feeling and believing and not believing and all that good stuff.
Speaker 1:That's, that's awesome and you, you must've enjoyed it because you're still doing it, so it didn't ruin you from the sport which I could. I could see where that would happen to. A lot of people Like, as I've built up the distance cause I'm I'm newer to the sport you know I did a hundred K last summer. I was like that wasn't much fun like I don't think we're doing that. That was that was yeah, and it's like I'll go run 100 miles. That seems doable, seems feasible, let's do it yeah yeah, so that's I mean it's easier to.
Speaker 3:I'll be honest, it's. It's been easier to enjoy it because I I've won some of those races and you know they're not the most competitive race, they're kind of your normal like run of the mill, like oh, there might be one or two really strong people, but winning the race is definitely like a very enjoyable element. That kind of keeps me coming back and like we turn up the challenge a little more. See what's going on. Because I do remember, like after my after pine creek, which is 2021, like cross the finish line, collapse, all that normal stuff, and I like look up to my parents and I'm like never again. I was like I swear to god I'm never doing this again, and then obviously that I did not keep that promise.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you didn't. You're someone I'm definitely gonna be rooting for here. So, rob, I'm sure as well.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. Well, speaking of a hundred miles, Casey, don't you have something going on this weekend?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, running the canal. Yeah, yeah, running the canal quarter, canal corridor, 100, nice and flat. Uh, unfortunately for me, it looks like it's going to rain again, which is, yeah, not good. Not, I don't, I don't like the rain, especially the cold rain. So, yeah, I'm gonna knock off my first hundred miler. I build build up slowly, unlike ethan, you know, to get to get here I kind of like ethan's technique and I think ignorance is bliss.
Speaker 1:When you build up slowly, you kind of know what's coming right yeah, yeah, I mean I thought I did a good thing by just running a 50k before I ran anything else. My man here, just straight off into the deep end, dead sailor, no hands, yeah but you sent it a grindstone.
Speaker 3:That's a great, like the vert in that race would scare me away and you were just like I'm just gonna attack that. So it's honestly not that different of a of a strategy here, like I'm just gonna make it hurt a lot more quickly than like a more reasonable 50k. You know so well the.
Speaker 1:The reason I like, like the, like laurel highlands and in grindstone is because I get to walk a lot and say I'm power hiking, like I am scott juric meme in the sense that yeah right, rob, I'm out there, power hiking, I'm not walking up that hill.
Speaker 2:I am power hiking. Yeah, we'll say power hiking.
Speaker 1:For now a tomato, tomato so ethan you it looks like you you run over some races out. East beast of the burden. The dirty german endurance fest, that looks like fun. That sounds like something that would be a good time.
Speaker 3:That was a cool race. The trophy for that is a cuckoo clock that responds to the weather, because there's basically these strings and pieces of wood on the inside that are very susceptible to pressure changes, inside that are very susceptible to pressure changes. So, like if it's raining or like if it's sunny or whatever, the cuckoo clock should be doing different things. It's at my parents house, uh, out in new towns I'm not sure if it's set up or anything, but that was a really cool. That was like a mud fest of a run, so that one was a lot of fun for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, that definitely sounds like awesome prize. I mean, that's, yeah, yeah, that's unique, for sure yeah I.
Speaker 3:I guess if they have kind of a politically incorrect race title, you know they got to make people okay with it. Somehow it's like here we'll bribe you with this cuckoo clock, just Just don't complain about the race name or whatever.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's actually one of the cooler prizes I've heard. I'm still upset. There was a local race I took third. Top three were supposed to get a jar of local maple syrup to the trails that it was on. So I finished third and I was like where's my uh, where's my maple syrup? He's like well, you were third in your age group and overall the the two in the uh age group got two. You don't get any and I was like wait three.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was like wait, I thought it was top three.
Speaker 1:I was like, well then, I won my age group and I should get it for the age group. He's like no, you finished third in the age group and we only give two to age groups, and I was like I'm confused.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I didn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got robbed of a hometown maple syrup. Not happy about it still to this day. But Disappointing. That was the Tuscazor rum, the Tuscazor. I didn't go back this year?
Speaker 2:obviously, yeah, I wouldn't think so. I'm sure you filled out the survey, though, right.
Speaker 1:No, I didn't fill out the survey. I only filled out one survey ever. Yeah, bad food truck, bad food truck.
Speaker 3:Well, like a post-race survey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like because we just had Dan and Jim of laurel highlands on laurel highlands, which in pennsylvania, call that one you know we're talking about the, the post-race surveys, and I, because I said I never complain- and I don't think I was complaining, rob I I simply just said that maybe having a corndog food truck at the finish line wasn't like the best.
Speaker 1:I think I said yeah, I don't know if corndogs are the move ever personally yeah, like kind of yeah if, I'm if I'm at the county fair it's perfect, but maybe not after a 50K and it's 85 degrees. I don't really want to court that. No, not so much. Maybe a beer truck would have been good.
Speaker 3:So anyway.
Speaker 1:Ethan, you're killing these East Coast races and you just decide. You know what I need bigger and better. I'm moving.
Speaker 3:I'm heading out west. Is that pretty much what happened. I'd been to Flagstaff before to do this thing called the Conservation Corps, which is like an AmeriCorps program, and it basically just like that was my first time really away from the East Coast. It was like 2022. Came out to Flagstaff to like learn how to use a chainsaw and work in the national forest. It was super cool. And then I ended up doing a season of wildland fire. So that beast of burden race was basically.
Speaker 3:I was on a type six engine out in Coeur d'Alene and I flew the East coast for that race and it was hot and humid and I you know it was I was not prepared for it and it was miserable. But I kind of after that race, like I still had to go back to fire season. It's like hot, dirty, smoky work and I started to kind of consider like I don't really know, if you know, this is how I want to treat my body. I ended up moving back out to North Carolina for fall of 2023 to do some prescribed burning and I found that I was able to start running again and not be like destroying my body. I was actually going to run a race in North Carolina in April of 2024, around the same time I did Whiskey Basin. But then some stuff happened at the end of that job. There was like some unsafe firing operations that happened and I was kind of like all right, like I've been doing this like stuff that's hard on my body, like the conservation work, and I've also been doing this stuff that's hard on my body, which is like running, and I've also been doing this stuff that's hard on my body, which is like running ultras. And so I kind of decided like, well, I want to do I enjoy both of these things, but like, while I'm young, I kind of want to see what I'm capable of in this like ultra running community, because I've had some success. So I basically like hired a coach His name's Will Baldwin. We talked about like some race strategy stuff.
Speaker 3:I was like I'm going back out to Flagstaff because that's a great place to train. Obviously, Jim has trained in Flagstaff a bunch, but there's tons of people. I was like I'm going out to Flagstaff, I'm going to run races. We found this race in Prescott, which is basically like an hour south of Flagstaff, April. It's like perfect weather.
Speaker 3:So we signed up and then kind of since then it's been like finding races but planning for some bigger stuff and like I'm starting to take training seriously and all this good stuff. So there's a little bit of like yeah, I kind of just moved out. But it was also like sport, like I was kind of missing the sport and I was at this crossroads where I was like I don't know, you know, I'm gonna do something that's hard for my body one way or another. But you know, maybe it was like an ego thing, like there's a little more glory in running these races and getting a little recognition for it than there is in like being an anonymous person in a yellow shirt and green pants who walks the forest and breathes in smoke all day.
Speaker 1:So am I understanding this right? You're like a forest firefighter, then?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's kind of funny, like well, so I was, I don't do do that. As of april I stopped doing that. But yeah, basically in 2022 I was on a fuels reduction crew in flagstaff. That was a lot of like spinning the forest so that it's like better protected against fire. And then after that I went to cordelaine and I did the wildland thing. So I was on an engine and I wasn't familiar with what wildland fire was, because I grew up in you know, outside of Philly Like we don't have forest fires.
Speaker 3:It is kind of common in the Southeast and a little bit in the Midwest, but out West, really, like you know, I'm sure people hear about like the huge fires in California or Oregon or whatever there's people that like it's their job to attempt to control that wildfire or mitigate the consequences of it.
Speaker 3:So they are working like in the forest near this fire trying to quell it, trying to like reduce fuels. So I was doing that out west and then I did it out East in the winter and I loved it. I enjoyed the heck out of it and I, you know I'm probably still going to go back to it at some point. But it's very like physically demanding work and I kind of miss like feeling energized and feeling healthy, which that job doesn't always lead you to feel that day when you're on your feet and bending over with your heavy pack and breathing in smoke and being in the heat. So I let that go. In April I came out to Flagstaff just like working on a farm, you know kind of just like a little bit more chill lifestyle, and decided to like take running more seriously for like a year or two years and see what I could get out of it.
Speaker 2:Back to fighting fires. I mean, what does that process like? Like where? How do they pick a spot to to catch on fire? I mean, is it just we don't want it to go towards the city, so burn this field over here, trying to redirect the fire somewhere else?
Speaker 3:It depends a lot for wildfire, because if you're a federal resource, which means you're like the US Forest Service or NPS, you're working like on public lands. So, yes, there is some element of public protection. You don't want things to burn towards people's houses, but the forest and the landscape itself is a resource. There's like this whole history of fire in this country was mismanaged for a long time, so now fires burn hotter, heavier, quicker, more violently. So you're basically trying to balance, like the fact that fire is a natural part of the ecosystem and stuff is supposed to burn, the fact that the forests are way overcrowded, with more trees and there's people living in there, and obviously you know the forest quote unquote has many uses.
Speaker 3:But if it's national forest land, that falls under the department of agriculture. So there's things like grazing rights and you know sometimes fields burn for to set up like farm farming and stuff. So there's a lot of like. There's a lot of reasons to stop a fire. There's a lot of ways to stop it as well, but sometimes it's too hot and too dangerous and you just have to let stuff burn that is.
Speaker 1:That is pretty interesting. Did not think I was going to learn this much about firefighting. I did, now that I did. Just look at your instagram, I do see a picture of you fighting fighting a fire. So that that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my one and only Instagram post. Um, I was kind of against Instagram and then my coach was like, hey, you should get an Instagram in case, like you want to take this running thing more seriously, like you can hopefully like attract some kind of engagement or sponsorship at some point. And he's right.
Speaker 3:But I was like I want to be a little goofy about it, so I didn't, you know it hasn't been all running stuff on there, but certainly it is a large part of my personality so that will reflect in my social media as well, yeah, I was wondering who took Cowboy Koza before I could get it. Now I found out it was me.
Speaker 1:I've never met someone that has done that went out and fought forest fires and do they just like? Will you have to go out for like days at a time to do this, cause you go to some pretty remote areas, correct?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so a typical, typical role, like in the height of the season when resources are kind of being stretched thing can be like 12 days, it can be 14. In very rare instances people will get pushed to 21 days, but that's more of like uh, that's more. I was on an engine which is kind of like the less intense side of fire. There's guys and gals out there doing like incredibly hard work on hand crews, where a lot of their work is like with hand tools and chainsaws, so they're like they don't have an engine with water. They're out there biking out way in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 3:And then there's even higher levels called hotshot crews, which there's this whole kind of like the Forest Service approach to like passing fires is kind of paramilitary. So there's like levels and layers to response type and you get more dialed, more extreme people like Marines and that would be like hots shots. Or you have like Pacific, you know, like Delta team six or whatever, like that would be like smoke jumpers. So there's this whole world of intensity that I didn't even touch. When I did it I had, comparatively mostly an easy job. I got to be at the engine every day so I, you know I could store more stuff and there was water and all that good stuff.
Speaker 3:But yeah, we would bike out maybe 10 or 14 days if we were on like a big fire. And then there's like all these rules and regulations about like how much you work and then drive and you have to take a certain amount of days off. But obviously the work is like intense and they need a lot of people. So you kind of get cycled back through fairly quickly.
Speaker 1:Now here's a question for you, because I've always thought this. You mentioned that the fires are burning hotter and quicker. Is it due to mismanagement of fires, where we just put them out right away?
Speaker 3:historically that has been part of it. Basically in the forest service, which is like the largest land management agency that deals with forest fires, there used to be this policy called the 10 am policy. So any fire that got reported, you know, you'd see smoke. You'd have somebody in a watchtower calling out this remote smoke. After lightning or a campfire getting left or whatever, there was this 10 am policy where basically after a fire got reported, the fire had to be out by 10 am the next day. What that basically did was interrupt the cycle of fire, because every year you would have fires burning around and smoldering around, eating up hundreds of thousands of acres, but doing it in a slow and controlled way. And when you interrupt that cycle, fuel starts to build up in the forest because it's not burning as often. So at some point it will burn, whether it's from lightning or amp fire or a spark from somebody driving or whatever. And now there's way more fuel available in the forest and it is a lot harder to stop. So part of it is like mismanagement.
Speaker 3:But I want to preface that by saying we didn't. Nobody knew better at the time and this policy kind of went into place in like the 1910s and people were rightfully scared of fire. This was kind of the end of westward expansion in the us and we felt like we had conquered the continent or the country, excuse me and we were kind of scared of the wilderness and fire was part of the wilderness. So in our way to control it, we were trying to put everything out and we didn't realize for a long time, until we had we started having really smart people like investigate the historic significance of fire and see what native communities were doing with fire. Did we really understand? Oh, we've got a ticking time bomb out here now? You know if we did all that work to stop fire and now there's so much more work to get it back to a more natural cycle so, jc, I'm starting to pick up on a reoccurring theme here.
Speaker 2:I think ethan's a bit of a risk taker. What do you think?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, if you're walking into fires in the middle of the woods, yeah, you, you tend to take risks, I think I mean you're also a cage fighter and you know, jump out of airplanes.
Speaker 2:What are your other hobbies?
Speaker 3:Yeah, some people do jump out of airplanes. That is a thing people do on fire. They're crazy crazier than me. Let's see other hobbies I like to read. I write a little bit Just impress my girlfriend. You know something like that.
Speaker 1:Oh, you'll grow out of that phase, don't worry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, besides running and work I don't really get up so much, I don't know. I enjoy being outside generally, so there's a lot of like trail groups out in Flagstaff where you can volunteer and like make some of the trails you run on better. I just got done working at Heart Prairie, which is a nature conservancy property. We were prepping that property for winter, so when I'm not working I try and do something outside. That's going to keep my skills semi Um and sleep I like. Sleep is probably my favorite hobby.
Speaker 1:That's two of us for sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's all right, it's.
Speaker 3:It's seven, 40 and I'm already yawning, so I yeah, oh my gosh, I bet I'm usually asleep by then.
Speaker 1:I pick my bedtime base off what I think my girlfriend won't make fun of me for. If I go at nine 15, she's won't make fun of me, for If I go at 9.15, she's going to make fun of me. If I go at 9.45, it's usually pretty cool. So that's how I pick my bedtime. Yeah, sleep is where it's at. We're up to the point now, the Flagstaff Extreme Big Pine, which is where I got where I heard of well who you are quite honest. Was that an Air Viper race?
Speaker 3:Yes, that was an Air Viper race.
Speaker 1:All right. So I believe and I'll have to ask him if he was the one, but I believe Will Walmsley saw it he sent me the reel or something and was like, hey, do you know this guy?
Speaker 1:I was like, actually like, actually no, but seems pretty fast to me, seems like a kind of guy I would like. So that's how I got to know you was. Was from that race, the, the flagstaff extreme big pine. Uh, yeah, the way I looked at it was any race you went in flagstaff with the amount of runners out there is probably a pretty big deal, I imagine, right you know it kind of it depends.
Speaker 3:I'll be honest, like a lot of and I'm still kind of new to this culture and the people out here I do feel like a lot of the strong runners in flagstaff will go hit races in Colorado or they're off, you know, facing UTMB dreams or or this or that. So it kind of comes and goes. Certainly there's a lot of like deep uphill kind of races that tickle a lot of people's fancy. But the ultra theme, like race wise, it's not as much as you would think and I think part of that's just because it's at altitude. You know. I think like if you train at altitude you want to go to a race, not at altitude to see what you're really capable of, but certainly like there is a lot of local competition and it doesn't have to be ultra. You know it can be like just regular trail running. You know, like I've seen all kinds of races on eldon and then the nordic Village and North Rim of the Grand Canyon and all this stuff.
Speaker 3:So you know some good competition. People have a lot of options to choose from as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, there is definitely some good runners out there. We know a few of them, right, rob?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, we do had a few of them on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, a lot of good runners out there. So yeah, that's kind of, and it's funny because I think I had like a few more people message me like is this your cousin? Our name is not.
Speaker 3:Our last name is not very common is our name is not our last name is not very common. No, it is not. You're the only person outside of my family I know, outside of my immediate family, I know with the last name yeah, yeah, not real common.
Speaker 1:It does, however, mean goat and polish. I don't know if you knew that or not oh yeah, I milk that all the time.
Speaker 3:I'm like hey, hey, you know what? Koza is Polish for goat. So yes, it is.
Speaker 1:And one of our previous guests, mariana. Mariana Grudziak hopefully I said that, right, not as good as she does. She sounds saying it. She's Polish and she was like you know, your name means goat, right? I was like I do. I've known that for a long time. Oh yeah, I definitely use that to my advantage as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe 23 and me in the future, for the two of you you never know. Oh, I don't know. Could be a relative a few generations back.
Speaker 1:Rob, you know how I feel about having all that kind of information out there in the ether. You know about having having all that kind of information out there in the ether. You know the government getting a hold of my dna.
Speaker 2:It's just for the podcast, casey.
Speaker 1:I don't expect you to do it from what I know, the lesson wouldn't be shocked if, like our grandparents, were cousins yeah it's, it would not be surprising to me, uh the least, especially both from Pennsylvania, right Heavy Polish areas. But yeah, I thought it was pretty cool, kind of started following along and you know I'd send Will and my friend Jeremy Pope, who's out there, was it?
Speaker 3:last weekend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you were crewing for someone. Jeremy took second at the saddle something saddle yeah, saddle yeah, saddles 50 mile race. So yeah, they've been. They've been sending those two stuff like yeah, he's, you know he's looking, looking pretty strong. I believe you did go strava dark, correct?
Speaker 3:um, kind of there's. There's like a little time I had like a groin injury. So I I am private on strava now and that's because, like I did a, I'm gearing up for the javelina 100 miler in like two weeks. A couple months ago I was on the course, like you know, and I put down my thoughts about the course and somebody in the comments was like hey, you gotta be careful, like staying how your training's going. Cause you're, I guess I'm like if you go to the Havilina like entrance list, because I haven't lost a race, I'm like near, I'm like at the top or near the top of like the rankings for that race, which is kind of funny, cause like there's obviously guys in that race who is kind of funny because like there's obviously guys in that race who are like way better, you know, killer athletes and I just have like a weird little stat anomaly. They're like hey, like just be careful, like people are going to be checking your strava to see how you're training and that like wigged me out for whatever reason.
Speaker 3:So I like made my strava private from that point. And then there's like sometimes I just don't say stuff and like I had a little groin injury a few weeks ago, so I just like wasn't doing much to put on Strava anyway. But now we're back. I'm trying to keep it real, you know, like I kind of like missed the long run, like two weeks ago I was like whatever, like I'll tell, I'll tell the fans how it is, you know, but we'll be back next week, kind of thing. I'm not jim strava dark, but I'm, you know, not putting it all out there per se yeah, this is exciting times.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is before you explode on the scene. Right, you still have that dark horse you're walking around in. That it's just interesting. Like you see others, we've met a few of them that you know they're walking around in. That it's just interesting. Like you see others, we've met a few of them that you know they're not in the top 30, top 40, and then all of a sudden, boom, they're there and everyone's talking about them.
Speaker 3:So it's an exciting time for you yeah, well, you know, hopefully you know, knock on wood, we'll see how the race goes. I'm definitely excited for it. Um, it plays into a lot of my strengths, certainly being a dark horse, I think, is one of those you know, it lights the fire in your eye a little bit like I gotta.
Speaker 1:I gotta prove them wrong, or whatever so you're, you're taking the shot here at Javelina. What's our strategy look like? Are we allowed to talk about it?
Speaker 3:I haven't super thought about strategy. I think a lot of it's going to be weather dependent, but I'll definitely say this much Like I've had the luxury, uh, in all my other races, of like I get to control the race and that's just like the way I've always run is from the front. You know, even at Pine Creek, like after the first four or five miles of the race, I was in front and I didn't let anyone in front of me. I didn't see anybody after that and every race has kind of been like that, because I just I feel like ultras are more about challenging yourself. So I don't want to be basing my performance off of pacing, off of somebody else or seeing what they're doing or you know whatever, and being like, oh, I can't do this because they're this person. Avelina will not be that way. It's just like the stakes are too high. It's a long race. You know it's lap. I haven't thought about it super too much, but I know that I get stronger as the distance gets longer whatever first lap, you can chill.
Speaker 3:I don't care if I'm in 800th place. We're going to start working up probably after two laps and like the boost you get from passing people, that's pretty, that's a good thing to have in your back pocket. The boost you get from like knowing that you're coming but nobody else knows you're coming. I really like running from that place as well. I haven't thought too much about like pace or position.
Speaker 3:Um, I'd like to just there's a lot of savvy guys in this race. I'd like to not show them anything until it's time to like really sink my teeth in. I don't want to show them, even if it's a false hand, like these guys will pick up on anything. So I'm just trying to stay out of people's way. Do my thing, you know, basically be like brain dead for probably two and a half laps, wake up 50 miles in. I'm like all right, I'm feeling good, I'm feeling like I can take some names and then just like enjoying the heck out of that pursuit. So I don't have any like specific numbers for you or anything. It's going to get more fun as it goes on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do have a former at least one former guest, Caleb Bowen, who's now that I'm looking at the start list. He's running. Very good runner out of Huntington, West Virginia, Track and field and cross country coach for Marshall. Super good dude. I'm trying to. Oh, I remember. I remember the Blake man. I'm going to say his name. I'm slatting grin. I remember him from Western States he was. He was right with our buddy Simone there all day. So, yeah, I mean it's definitely gonna be tough, but no, we're excited for you, man, Thank you To watch you and I really like that when you went for it, because, looking at your ultra signup, you're like, yeah, you know what, I'm going to sign up for the Black Canyon ultra as well, which, having run that last year, Rob was out there as well. Rob and I ran the 60K, which is now 50K, which is much better idea. It's a.
Speaker 1:It's a tough course, that is yeah I'm thinking about going back out there will wants to go run it, so we might go back out there. I might see out there for that. But yeah, that's another one. You I mean you're taking a shot at two premier ultras in america, I think, and I mean that by like ones that you can actually get into right, right right yeah, yeah I remember registering for black canyon back in like april and on.
Speaker 3:It's not a guarantee that I'll do it. I'm I want to see like how I'm feeling after javelina, if there's something left in the tank, if there's something, something left unsaid. But it's also possible I'll scratch out of that and like go do some like just like races for pure enjoyment. Southern arizona, the avt puts on like a couple 50 milers which would be cool. I'm not like super guaranteed locked in for black canyon but obviously I had to register super early just to give myself that opportunity. I, you know, I'm going to talk with my coach, we're going to see, but no promises. Promises, but I think 100K is probably like, is probably my distance. You know I'm not like super mature in the ultra field so I don't have like the latent strength to just like continuously blast 100 milers. But 100K feels like. Feels like I could do some damage. But 100k feels like. Feels like I could do a damn some damage at 100k. Nothing's off the table, everything's on the table at this point well if you do end up running it.
Speaker 2:This is a fun race, man. It's a cool course, you know, starting up pretty high altitude, very cold in the morning, and just running downhill for not quite the the whole race, but probably half of it to 40% of it, and it's just a really, really fun. Beautiful, beautiful course.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I've passed it, you know, on my way down to look at the Javelina course because it's just off, at least Black Canyon city is just off of the 17. So you can hop on that scenic trail real easy and a lot of my friends are doing it. So like I'll be there in some capacity for sure. You know whether it's like volunteering or crewing people, not positive already, but it's just. I'm trying to just focus on Javelina and see where the competitive spirit takes me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, hopefully I'll see you out there. I know I definitely can't go out to Javelina. I will not be there, so I think I'll be in Florida. Maybe I'll be somewhere, not there.
Speaker 3:Anywhere. But there is probably good, it's probably still going to be hot there, there's going to be a thousand people squeezed into this one park.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I will be rooting for you.
Speaker 3:I'm a little disappointed, it's $ to park, but that's not my business. So how much was it? 48 to park. Yeah, the vip parking. I like the start finish line is 48 and when I saw that, I'll be honest, I was like just in a grumpy mood and that just like made me super grumpy.
Speaker 3:I was like man, I'm so tired of spending money on this sport, and $48 to park is crazy. Luckily, my mom bought the pass because she's like coming out to crew me. So I'm like, all right, I'm catching a ride with my mom. She's going to drive me to the start line. It's chill.
Speaker 1:Yes, perfect, that's good. Yeah, at least mom picked it up. That's nice of her.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, thank you mom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, moms are always there for you, so that's good, and yeah, we're going to be rooting for you at Javelina. Thank you, I think you're like you might be one of the only PA people out there.
Speaker 3:Let me look at the oh, that's cool. At some point I'm going to have to change my location of Flagstaff, but I live in my car so I don't have an address to put. So it's like we'll just keep repping Pennsylvania. For now, let them think I trained in Newtown Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good throw-off Now past Black Canyon. I guess you've talked about it a little bit Like hey, give it a shot for one or two years, see what happens. Do you have anything other plans within the next year?
Speaker 3:Kind of Definitely the thing that like pipes me up the most is like I want to attempt and I know Havilene is like a pretty fast course for a hundred miler, but there are a few courses that are a little faster, a little flatter. Weather's probably a little nicer towards the end of next year um, I want to say it's I'm forgetting the name, I think it's like brazos bend, which is in texas. It's still like five loops, but it's like a super flat course, um, and it has like a I don't think it's a golden ticket, it might be, but it has like a cash prize which is kind of cool, you know, offset some of the, the training costs. But generally speaking, I'll say like a like a really fast hundred miler. This would be kind of like a comical. This is kind of like a comical goal that I keep like tucked in my back pocket.
Speaker 3:But at some point I'd like to run the equivalent of like four Boston marathon qualifiers in a hundred miler and I know that's not four marathons, it's, like you know, 5.2 miles short but to like be on pace for whatever that would be, because I think I'm capable of that.
Speaker 3:But if they keep, you know, cutting down the qualifying times, I'm gonna run out of time and then it's like shoot, I'm gonna have to do 100 miles in eight hours and 40 minutes.
Speaker 3:You know, for my age group hopefully another 100 miler is like kind of the far off big plan for next year. I kind of want to just like wreck a bunch of 50 milers, like especially in Flagstaff, so like Sky Peaks was like a couple of weeks ago, battled 50 in Prescott, like see if I can get that kind of like grindy, like I don't want to say old man strength, but like that kind of thing where, like I can hit races off of a quicker recovery period. Hit some 50 milers, like get that strength down really good is like preparation for 100 milers. I don't know I'm very I procrastinate a lot. So like registering for races this far in advance is super new to me and you know it's like I might miss the opportunity for some big races because it's not even on my radar until two weeks before it happens and then I'm like oh darn.
Speaker 3:You know I should have registered two years ago. I need to take out, you know, like a I don't know, some kind of like time loan go back in time and be like, yes, I would like to register for this race.
Speaker 1:So long story short 100 miler, fast 50 milers for fun one of the fastest 100 milers is the one I'm running this weekend. Won't be fast for me well, hopefully I get finished, but the canal corridor is is I I think two years ago was definitely. I think it had the top two fastest 100 mile times. Caleb bowen and another gentleman who specializes in track races came out and did it, so he went from track to that. That's pretty.
Speaker 3:There's one hill on the course yeah, and pine creek is similar to that.
Speaker 3:I just like the humidity, like after being in the humidity for you know, 21 years of my life, I'm very over it and I like this dry heat out here, and so that's where I'm trying to obviously not that Texas is going to be much better, but I'm trying to look at like races in November, because you know that with the way that things keep heating up or whatever, like November in the south seems to be like a pretty tame time where it's not too cold, it hasn't snowed necessarily, but also like the humidity cooling down the gulf of mexico is not like popping off as much it's becoming weather dependent for me, because I'm kind of a sissy in the heat.
Speaker 3:I mean I've been doing like the sauna training and all that junk, but like I would rather just like I just want perfect conditions to run fast. I know there's like something to be said for like working through the heat or working through the cold or whatever. It's like that's not the kind of thing that I hold in high value right now. It's like give me perfect conditions, you know. Like give me kipchoge sub two hour attempt conditions, you know, controlled as much as possible. Like get my fuel good, all that stuff, just how fast can I run on a flat course kind of thing. So we're gonna do some more research. But I had I did see canal on there, pine things kind of on there, but I don't know problem here is it gets a little.
Speaker 1:It could be a little too cold this time of october, like 45 degrees of rain is not my ideal, anything no.
Speaker 2:No, you get cold and humidity. It's not a good combo.
Speaker 1:It's a bad combo. Bad combo. But if the weather's good, it's always good to have goals, Right, Rob oh?
Speaker 2:100%. And you're a young guy, Ethan, I mean you have another 40, 50 years of running. So take your time, don't worry about missing out. And I have to ask you before we, uh, before we wrap up, you're living out of your car. What kind of car do you drive?
Speaker 3:I drive a 2009 subaru forester which is like a compact suv. Luckily I'm only five nine so I can fit in there. But basically me and my girlfriend build out like a kind of like a camping system in it, so there's like a sliding drawer system. I put like a mattress pad on top of it. I can sleep down late. You know, I got a sunroof, whatever ventilation. It's definitely not a long term plan, but I really like not paying rent. There's a lot of forest land out here so it's easy to just like go park somewhere with like beautiful dark skies, where you're not going to be bothered, you're not breaking any laws, very peaceful, um, but winter will be a little harsh.
Speaker 1:You jealous.
Speaker 2:Rob, very, very Even if I was your age, that's exactly what I would be doing.
Speaker 1:Right, living the life out there, flagstaff running. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's exactly what I would be doing, right.
Speaker 3:Living the life out there, flagstaff running. Yeah, yeah, that's that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I know I talked with you a little bit about it, but yeah, the car living I enjoy my trips, right, I stay in my car and camp out in my car. Yeah, it's fun, it's cool. I wish I would've done that in my twenties. I wish I would have done that in my twenties.
Speaker 3:Hey, you're never too old. You're never too old to start Honestly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess so, but I don't know that I'm going to go fight fires. I don't think. I think I'm past my day in that one there out in the wilderness fighting fires.
Speaker 3:We'll see. You know I miss it as much as I like this running thing. I'm kind of like Like man, I miss that. You know the grass is always greener or whatever. But I'm committed to this, at least for a year or two years. You know we'll see how. A year from April basically, when I came out here. So I got at least some time left, if not some more time left.
Speaker 1:Sweet. Well, we're looking forward to watching you. I know I'll be rooting for you at Javelina, waiting for you to make your move for sure, and wish you all the best of luck in everything you do and hopefully we'll get to talk to you on here, hopefully after a good Javelina race, maybe.
Speaker 3:Oh man, that would be awesome. After a good Javelina race and a good canal corridor race, we'll both have some more stories to report.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, finishing will be a good story for me.
Speaker 3:So you got to smoke a cigar at the finish line. I mean it's like the coolest picture you know, a hundred miles. Quads are like shredded. You just got big old fat cigars like I don't know, college football championships or whatever, joe Burrow.
Speaker 1:Joe Burrow the cigar picture. Yeah, That'd be. I might have to settle for a beer, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Get the carbs back into me. So yeah, but we certainly appreciate your time, Ethan, and we're glad you could join us. We're glad we got the Wi-Fi situation figured out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess the one downside huh Flagstaff is the library doesn't know how to do Wi-Fi, but it was a super big honor, uh, for you to invite me on and I'm super grateful that you guys are willing to give me a little bit of time to talk about a boring little. Whatever I do not dude, it's, it's awesome.
Speaker 1:You're, you're, you're gonna go out and crush it. Cozas ain't soft, we're goats right yeah, we're good yeah, but thanks again, man. We, we sincerely appreciate it. And where can our listeners? Well, I guess you don't post much on instagram. That was the only thing I could find, but you are on strava, which is private. Yeah, that wouldn't be a good spot, but you are on instagram yeah. You stole my name, which is a cowboy, coza. Cowboy spell with a K in case anyone wants to give you a follow.
Speaker 3:But I'll probably open my Strava up, um, like after the race. On that I don't feel like anyone's keeping my training. I'll probably open it up. You know, hopefully things go well. People can see how the build went. I don't want to be reclusive, I don't want to just keep my stuff to myself. Obviously I understand there's a strategic component. I hope people will see it and be like he's just a normal runner.
Speaker 1:He can do it, I can do it.
Speaker 3:I'll definitely open up the strava. You know, I'm not uh, I'm not just gonna keep it secret kind of thing.
Speaker 1:I didn't do anything crazy so yeah, you just go out and run every day. I mean, that's. That seems to be a pretty good strategy for most people, right rob?
Speaker 2:oh yeah. Yeah, I don't think there's anything out there that's too big of a secret. When it comes to running, there's different plans of attack, but it's kind of using the same ingredients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks again, man. We certainly appreciate it and we look forward to watching Javelina. Hopefully Will and myself will be out at Black Canyon. If he registers, that'll probably force me to register, but he probably wants to wait and see how Columbus Marathon goes, so hopefully we see you out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, thank you guys again. Casey, rob Casey, good luck in the race. Rob, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one last question. So what color is the Subaru?
Speaker 3:It is like light blue. I don't have like a good color vocabulary but light blue kind of shiny PA plates Can't miss it.
Speaker 2:So I guess if any of our listeners see a Subaru that's light blue with PA plates, maybe give it a knock and wish this young man good luck.
Speaker 1:A lot of us Polish are colorblind, rob, so it might not be blue, true. And on that note, peace out for Hobby Dogger.