The Hobby Jogger Podcast

E23 | Common Running Injuries & Grindstone 50k Preview

• Hosted by: WeeViews & Branch Sauce • Season 1 • Episode 23

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Join us on Hobby Jogger and Friends as we recap some common running injures discussed with Dr. Bonnie Wilder and preview the Grindstone 50k.  Plus, we can't help but get excited about our upcoming episode featuring DJ Fox and Joshua Reed's astonishing fastest known time achievement.

Casey Koza:

Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of Hobby Jogger and Friends. Today, I'm joined by my co-host with the most, mr Rob Myers. Rob, how are you? I'm doing? Well, let's do it. Let's do it. Looking forward to Grindstone this weekend, huh yeah, man Can't wait.

Rob Myers:

Sweet. We're leaving here shortly in the camper, gonna make a couple stops along the way. Yeah, it's gonna be fun.

Casey Koza:

Weather looks great here shortly in the camper, going to make a couple stops along the way. But yeah, it's going to be fun. Weather looks great, nice. Yeah, looking forward to it. Today we are joined by our producer, mr David Moore.

David Moore:

David, how are you today Doing? Great, casey, happy to be on this side of the microphone with you guys this week. Disappointed I have to miss you guys in Grindstone, but looking forward to hearing the stories.

Casey Koza:

I saw there's still some charity bibs left, if you're interested uh pre-existing event.

David Moore:

I think I have I think, not one, but two weddings to attend that day, so double wedding day, that's.

Rob Myers:

It's a lot we'll definitely miss you. Around mile 20, 25 limping, go across the finish line, nice to turn around and know that you're there with us. But you'll be there in spirit.

David Moore:

I'll be following along in spirit with you guys.

Casey Koza:

Drinking a beer for us, I imagine, at the wedding. Well, that's good. And I had a cool guest on last week, dr Bonnie Wilder. Excellent, a ton of great information. Excellent, ton of great information.

David Moore:

You know myself, coming off of an injury, went through some of her videos and you know, kind of got through it pretty quick. The SI joint had three weeks off due to that. David, I know you producer our disclaimer here. First, if you want to hear accurate and helpful information, I would say listen to Dr Bonnie. Last week. This week I shared some injuries and I think, what we've each done to recover from those and maybe how they happened to begin with. Yeah, I've had several of those. I think Bonnie talked on the main five or main six. I've certainly had my share. I've had IT band, plantar fasciitis, had a stress fracture, runner's knee and more ankle rolls than I think I can count at this point. So it was funny thinking through those today. Thinking back, I would say over my eight, nine year running career has been mostly healthy, maybe 80%, 90% of the time healthy. But surprising to think back and how many injuries I've I've had myself and experience.

Casey Koza:

You had to deal with some plantar fasciitis. What ways do you go about treating it?

David Moore:

Yeah, so, casey, that that was a, that was a tough injury, that injury that I think came on from overuse and just out of the blue started hurting. You know the pain, the telltale symptoms that Dr Bonnie had shared out of bed in the morning, I would say, is the most excruciating, and every morning it's, you know, people related to hopping out of bed into a, into a box of gravel, and it really feels that way. My pain was directly on the heel and did a lot of things. I think I did some exercises for it and just some general stretching and maybe, maybe some band work. But but really the, the trick, the secret thing that got me through that I don't know how much of a secret it is, but nobody had told me and I didn't see much online about it, but it worked immediately.

David Moore:

There's something called, I want to say it's a Strasburg sock and you sleep in the thing and it's horrible to sleep. So you sleep terribly in it. My understanding is that pain in the morning in the heel is because, as your foot rests, your fascia or your tendons are most certainly saying that wrong, but everything kind of heals up on itself. So this sock essentially would have you sleep and it ties your toes kind of up in the air and it was within a couple of nights, within a week, like fully healed. And it was within a couple of nights, within a week, like fully healed. If I feel it coming back, I throw that sock on Again horrible to wear, uncomfortable to sleep, you lose sleep, but you wake up in the morning and your heel doesn't hurt and you use it for a few days in succession and it entirely took away the issues I was having there. So if you're struggling with plantars yourself, which can be a long-term thing, give it a shot.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, that's something I know. I've seen a lot of people deal with that. Haven't really found a good not cure but treatment for it. So that's something definitely to keep in the back of my mind for if it ever strikes me, I can always borrow your sock, david strasburg sock, that's it.

David Moore:

You wouldn't want to run it. It's got some straps and velcro and everything else hanging off of it, but uh, but it works.

Casey Koza:

It's really good when someone as well spoken and clear as bonnie can define to the layman's what the injuries are. You know, like I'm going into it, I much to the chagrin of you I don't do a whole lot of research, so I wasn't aware of. You know what some of those injuries actually were or what they entailed. But thankfully that's why we do the show is to have someone like Dr Bonnie on to to explain to to rob and I what it is that we don't know, right, rob?

Rob Myers:

yeah, and you can tell she knew what she was talking about.

David Moore:

I mean, she was using words I've never heard before, so that's how I know she's smart I appreciated, uh, dr bonnie, that there was like no tone or note of condescending like at all. It was just, this is what they are. And like, encourage runners, like, hey, take a couple weeks. You know we said, hey, when should a runner go to the doctor? And it was take a couple weeks. Do your is like I'm sure all of us do like our googling and self-diagnosing and trying what, what we find on the internet there? But you know, it seemed like she acknowledged, hey, that's going to happen. But if that doesn't work out, you know, come in and see a doctor, physical therapy, and they may be able to guide you in the right direction better than our searches on Google can.

Rob Myers:

Yeah, digging into IT band syndrome, that was my favorite because that was by far my worst injury. I mean it took six, nine months, very painful. You think you're healed from it but it comes back all the time and you never know when it's going to come back. And plus, we learned that the IT band is actually a ligament. I didn't know that.

Casey Koza:

And yeah, I actually, if you would have asked me before we went on with her, I would have said it's a muscle. I would not have known that it was a ligament. No, I was surprised, thought it was like a muscle that just tightens up. And we did learn you don't roll out ligaments. That makes sense, I guess, in hindsight. But yeah, don't roll out your ligaments. So learn that from Dr Bonnie, who would be a tremendous educator.

David Moore:

You know the way that she disseminates information in life, but I kind of knew what it was and that I forget what the muscle TFL or the muscle I always call them, the hip adductor muscles that you know I knew I had to do those lateral leg raises and same as rock, you know it goes away and comes back and feels good, with rest for a couple of weeks and then you get out four or five miles on a run and there's just that pain again. I think probably horrible advice I'll share here. But the one thing that I felt actually helped was when I just like focused on the pain and ran in a way that like caused more pain, and I think part of that is there was so much focus on gait that Dr Bonnie kept going back to gait, like a common thing in injuries. If your gait is wrong, everything's wrong.

David Moore:

I think what I had going on was a cycle of, like my IT being hurt. It changed my gait because I would favor my hurt leg to where it wouldn't be as painful when I was running and it finally, I think, took a realization of OK, like the more I try and avoid this pain, the worse the problem is going to be because it's changing my gait. So it was finally, just okay, I'm going to go out and run and I'm going to run in a way that it's going to hurt on this IT, but it's going to be as close as I can try and be to to like a natural, proper gait. And it seemed when I started doing that again maybe, maybe coincidence, and we'll see if Dr Bonnie follows up and says stop giving horrible advice but that really seemed to help me.

Rob Myers:

Did you try any of the weird contraptions that you're supposed to put right above your knee? I know I had a couple of those. Yeah, didn't seem to do anything at all, yeah.

David Moore:

I had the band, the strap, all of those as far as curing it or helping it or making it go away long term. I don't know that it did. Maybe there was a little more comfort, just kind of strapping down some pressure on that point that was causing pain.

Rob Myers:

What about you, Casey IT band?

Casey Koza:

Good question, rob, and yeah, I think that the gait is so important. Dr Bonnie, not a big fan of hokas, learned that. So a little disappointing to me and all the other hookah heads.

Casey Koza:

But I brought a tear to my eye yeah, very sad, yeah, but it makes sense and and just you know, learning how important gait is to your, your soundness and and health is something to concentrate on and maybe not run as much like. One thing I took away from it is maybe I won't run as much through injuries and maybe get on the bike till they're healed, so I'm not creating a second problem from the first problem. So, yeah, always good to learn.

David Moore:

Yeah, I think the rest is important. So what another? You know another injury I had and I we actually didn't talk about it with Dr Bonnie and I don't know if there's any other way to help it, but from rest I had and we actually didn't talk about it with Dr Bonnie and I don't know if there's any other way to help it, but from rest I had a stress fracture that was actually like non-running related. I had gone snowboarding and I'm not a great snowboarder and went straight down a black diamond hill and turned sideways and fell and hit and didn't feel that I was hurt, didn't feel anything, but came back and in a run, you know, could feel something was wrong and he was out on a long run and it just got worse and worse to what I realized was a stress fracture and I think that's one that, like you, have no other choice right. Like runners like to run through injury, but a fracture or stress fracture of that kind, the only solution is time.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, and also I'd probably recommend not going down black diamonds if you're a self admitted, not good snowboarder.

Rob Myers:

Yeah, that's number one. Yeah, stay away from the black diamond once in a lifetime lesson learned I hope, risk management sometimes is good injury prevention.

Rob Myers:

So yeah, the other. The other thing we discussed, um was the zero drop shoes and the barefoot shoes, and I know I personally went through that big, big ultra fan for years and years and years. I still have a ton of them sitting in my closet and to hear that the move that I made, the move from zero drop to you know, four or five millimeter drop, was the right thing, sounds like I need to go to like a 10 or a 14. Drop was the right thing, sounds like I need to go to like a 10 or a 14, but it was gigantic as far as alleviating a lot of the cramping that I'm getting in my calves.

Rob Myers:

Now, one thing that's interesting is it's starting to come back a little bit. So I think she was a hundred percent right and that four or five millimeter drop is not enough. I need to get up to you know eight, 10, 12, maybe. But that was that was interesting, because that was something I did on my own, not knowing what the results would be, and to have someone you know at her level confirm what I did. I was pretty happy to hear that, so, and it actually did help it was interesting.

David Moore:

So Bonnie, you know, certainly picked a couple of her favorites, right? If I recall I think it was Brooks and Saucony. I think Dr Bonnie is primarilya roadrunner, but I've seen just I know, Rob, you were a ultra guy, I think converted to Hoka guy at this point and I've even almost gone the opposite way I was from. Ever since I started trail running was in hokas and just recently, the last year, it's been more ultras, the zero drop, and I think that started.

David Moore:

I had a pretty severe ankle sprain about a year ago now and I was off completely for three, four weeks and then, as I started getting back into training, for whatever reason, the foot and ankle just felt more comfortable in the ultra.

David Moore:

I don't know if it was the closer to the ground or the wider toe box or maybe just kept me more on my toes rather than my midfoot and feeling that it could roll again. But still, even to this day I ran in a new pair of hokas yesterday and just didn't feel the same amount of comfort Now. Partly maybe I'd just have to retrain into a new pair of shoes or back into the hokas yesterday and just didn't feel the same amount of comfort now. Partly. Maybe I'd just have to retrain into a new pair of shoes or back into the hokas. But you know dr bonnie was talking and you know just how different shoes for different people and you know in my own experience how it feels better at times dealing with injuries having a different shoe on than maybe I used to always run it I think you're 100 right and I agree when it comes to rolling your ankle right.

Rob Myers:

I think with the ultras the one thing I miss is just being closer to the ground and really feeling the terrain, and I think it does help you avoid rolling your ankle. Because that was the first thing I noticed when I went to you know four or five millimeter drop shoe. I just felt like my ankles were a little less stable. I don't know, maybe it was because I ran in the ultras for so many years and now I'm used to it. I don't notice it, but that was the first thing I noticed. It's just my ankles didn't have the same stability, uh, in the hokas that they did in the ultras. But you can also get used to just about anything. That's the other thing it proved to me.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, I mean I have a pair of shoes that I wear, like Laurel Highlands type, rocky, super technical and basically my ankles on the ground, and that's just the proper shoe for it. So I think you know, also wearing just proper shoes for proper services is, you know, maybe it's not a Swiss Army knife shoe, you know, maybe it's not a Swiss Army knife shoe, it's well, maybe you should wear a smaller stack height or whatever, for certain different terrains is also a good way to probably go at it as well. Rob and I are running the grindstone 50K. I will have the Tecton X3s on at grindstone but I don't run in them ever outside of something like that Also, I would never actually, I wouldn't buy $275 shoes either.

Casey Koza:

They were a gift, so that's why I'm wearing them. What shoe are you wearing for the grindstone, rob?

Rob Myers:

I don't know. I'm on the fence, fence. I can promise there'll be a hoka, not sure which one that I'm gonna bring, probably the speed goats.

Casey Koza:

Did you get a pair of the sixes or are they the fives? They're the fives, fives, still rocking the fives.

Rob Myers:

I like those yeah still rocking the fives yep hey, I can't upgrade if they're still tread like if it's not time to throw them in the trash. I'm not gonna upgrade now. I'll buy a different model for sure, but I typically don't own, uh, two of the exact same pair of shoes this speed goat is a rare exception to that for me.

Casey Koza:

I have two pairs of the speed goat fives. I really liked them and I think there was a. I think there were a couple years between releases. I put a lot of miles on both pairs and really liked them. I might actually buy a bike from. I know Dix is running a special on a pretty cheap Speedgoat 5. I have no problem wearing last year's model of shoes. Ever, for any reason, they go on discount. We buy them up. I like it, but yeah, grindstone will be fun. Uh, it is a fast course. It's a very fast 50k course. I know there's 5 000 feet of elevation, but it's all very runnable. There is some roads like eight miles of roads, I think is it not technical at all?

Rob Myers:

there were a couple sections that were technical.

Casey Koza:

No, there was one section, if I remember correctly, from like mile eight to nine, that was a little bit rocky, but I thought it was going to be East Coast rocky, very much like Laurel Highlands trails, and it was not at all. It was all one part's like a nice buffed out mountain bike trail, which is always good. You got the Sonic the Hedgehog berms. The one climb was not that steep but it was really long and then it gets steep. But that might've been the other technical part, but all the downhills were very runnable and very smooth.

Rob Myers:

Yeah it looked like it was only a few miles of road. Most of it was trail.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, and very smooth. It looked like it was only a few miles of road. Most of it was trail. There's some back service roads in there as well. It'll be fun. It'll get us back to the beer quicker, hopefully, looking forward to it, that's what matters. Also, looking forward we've got another cool episode coming up. We do Next week will be released. Mr DJ Fox and Joshua Reed just had a big, fastest known time yeah, it was very cool.

Casey Koza:

Dj is something else man, he's super human yeah, he's one of those guys that you can just tell when he gets a goal he's going to go after it and he's just not going to stop. You can see that not to give too much into the episode, because we do want people to listen to it, but when he failed the first attempt, it really drove him and his mindset for the second attempt. Pretty cool to go through that story with him of persevering through a failure and just kind of figuring, you know, figuring it out and grinding out the second one.

Rob Myers:

Yeah, those guys that are wired for those multi-day races. I mean it's one thing to say hey Casey, how was you know mile 15 or mile 20 for 50 K? But when you're gone for multiple days and you're out there trying to sleep, trying to keep your nutrition right and just all the factors that we think about over the course of six, seven, eight, nine hours, but you have to do it over a week, I mean it's just insane. The chances for something to go wrong is just so much higher.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, I mean, even if you look at just the difference between a 50K and a 100 mile, what could go wrong? Now you want to extrapolate that out into seven days of wilderness in the Colorado back mountains and it's yeah, there's a there's a lot of time, a lot of distance for things to go wrong. So, yeah, really good episode with DJ and Josh. So glad they could make some time for us and look forward to that coming out and seeing what people think about it.

David Moore:

You know, as far as enthusiasm from guests, that was one, both DJ and Joshua, and rightfully so, but just the adventure they must have had out on seven days, even for the crew. We'll hear more about it next week, but I think they had a 13 person crew that went with them and spent this week, and you know, out there, days and nights, sunshine, rain, everything you hit through the Western mountains. I mean, it was epic.

Rob Myers:

It was definitely a fun one.

Casey Koza:

There's a lot of information in there as well. There's there's it's one of our longer episodes, I believe. And yeah, there's there's a lot. We probably could have done two or three episodes on the whole experience, so we kind of got a condensed version from them. But yeah awesome episode and look forward to seeing how people like it.

Rob Myers:

To your point. We definitely could have made that a three part, three part episode. I mean the level of detail that they go into and if you think about it, I mean you have seven days worth of detail and most of the guests we've had they're talking about one race, Even if it's a 100-miler, and it's a day and a half, approaching two days. It's just there's a lot to unpack. So I think everyone's going to enjoy it.

Casey Koza:

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Hobby Jogger and Friends. Thank you to Mr David Moore for taking time out of your production duties to join us.

David Moore:

Thank you very much, david. Yeah, absolutely Great, great again to join on this side with you guys. Hopefully I'll have an invite back.

Casey Koza:

Rob, thanks for being here and I will see you in a few days.

Rob Myers:

Yeah, man, we'll see you Thursday. Looking forward to it.