The Hobby Jogger Podcast
Welcome to The Hobby Jogger Podcast, where elite athletes and ham-and-eggers lace up their stories. We explore the common ground that running creates from the world-class runner to the hobbyist hitting the pavement, trail or treadmill. Expect a blend of inspiration, laughter and the shared joy that makes every step count. Join us on this journey, where every run is a story worth sharing.
The Hobby Jogger Podcast
E12 | Caleb Bowen Shares His Path to Western States
Have you ever stood at the starting line of a goal so intimidating, it seemed to stretch out like an endless trail before you? That's where we find ultra-runner Caleb Bowen, our guest this week, as he shares his anticipation for the Western States Endurance Run, balancing the rigorous demands of his training with a full-time coaching career. Together with Ohio's trail master Jeremy Pope, we journey through the highs and lows of ultra-running, from the tactical to the personal.
As the conversation hits its stride, we delve into the nitty-gritty of race strategies and mental toughness needed to face Western States. From managing scorching heat to the nuances of nutrition, our runners open up about the meticulous preparation behind their hundred-mile pursuits. Whether you're a seasoned ultra-runner or someone who's curious about the world of trail races, this episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to not just run, but excel, in the face of a daunting challenge.
On today's episode of the Hobby Jogger, I am joined by co-host the king of Ohio trails back with me once again, mr Jeremy Poe. Jeremy, what's up, dude?
Speaker 2:Not much Happy to be back. I like to be on the other side of the mic here. I'm excited to talk to Caleb.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And Western States wait list how's that going? I haven't looked at it lately. We're just waiting, Just waiting. That's that going? I haven't looked at it lately.
Speaker 2:We're just waiting, just waiting.
Speaker 1:That's all we can do I like it, it's slow moving. Well, we do have a runner on today who will be competing in this year's Western States after winning a golden ticket at a race where he beat you and me. He maybe beat me by a good seven or eight hours, I don't know. I didn't really care to look at that Hurt my ego a little bit. But today we are joined by Mr Caleb Bowen. Caleb, what's up, dude?
Speaker 3:Hey, how's it going man?
Speaker 1:Hey, doing well, doing well, you excited.
Speaker 3:Yeah, real excited. I've been tracking you guys' podcast for a while now and whenever you sent me the picture of Jim Walmsley last week I was like oh no. I don't want to follow that, but I'm really excited to be on and talk to you guys.
Speaker 1:We put you in the prime time spot. It's like being on after Cheers back in the day. People leave the TV on and tune in. So there you go. Now, as we just mentioned, you did get a golden ticket to western states. Um, coming up here pretty soon. How are things going? How are things looking?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, it's coming up really quick. We have less than 10 weeks now, which is insane. But uh, you know training's going well, it's getting a lot better. You know track season for me, where I'm a cross-country track coach, you know I can't do exactly what I want to do just because I'm traveling all the time. You know, pretty much every Thursday through Sunday, you know we're gone. You know, at a track meet. You know the past two weeks have been in Virginia. Before then, you know, we traveled to Florida, we traveled to North Carolina, pretty much all across the East Coast. So you know it's a fun time to be able to explore.
Speaker 3:But like it's just hard because you're governing, you know, 50 to 70 athletes making sure their needs are taken care of. So I try not to focus on my training too much. You know I'd love to be a hundred miles and a week and trying to get a lot more volume in, but I'm just trying to pick it day by day and try it. I'm still getting some decent volume, but it can be better. But I'm excited for the next 10 weeks because you know track season will be winding down soon and that gives me a little more opportunities to get out, you know, go to some different places where I can train and you know more trails. Um, you try to hit up some of the places I really love, like the new river gorge. Uh, davis, west virginia. Maybe even go to the grindstone course, because that's the place I think getting a lot of good bird in is. Uh, it's crucial and that's a great place because everything is super runnable.
Speaker 1:So, uh, definitely excited for the next few weeks and going into Western Now for your training for this and good to hear that everything's going well so far. And, yeah, having a job that's tough, like that's. Really the limiting factor I think for a lot of runners is having a full-time job, especially with you, with as busy as you are with now track season and, you know, into cross, you know I'm sure recruiting is is now the time right.
Speaker 3:I mean, I don't oh yeah, recruiting never stops. Um, I mean, it really picks up in the summertime but like we're trying to go out to as many high school track meets as possible, um, I was actually able to go up to the Canal Corridor course back in February, early March, to go to the Indoor State Meet, because that's in Spire Ohio, and just going to different meets I mean it's part of it. It's just part of the gig, it's what I signed up for. It's tough but it's also really cool to be involved with the running community. Uh, especially in huntington, west virginia, but like getting to see these young athletes grow in their you know journey and you know what.
Speaker 3:This is kind of like a little tangent, but like what, with it being close to graduation time right now, I have several athletes who they're not going to conference meet, they're not going to nationals or anything like that, so they're ending their season soon, and a couple of them came up to me and told me that they were really excited to get on the trails and that they've been kind of waiting for this point because they've seen what we've done, you know, me and the ultra run community in our area and they just want to be a part of it. So just being a little small part of that is super exciting kind of makes me tear up a little bit.
Speaker 2:so I mean, it's just cool, cool being a coach. Dude. Kudos to you, man. I mean.
Speaker 3:It's truly just you inspiring people and I think you should be proud of that yeah, I mean I won't know, I won't take credit for that, I mean a little part of it, but like I think I planted some seeds that have grown, like you know, we have guys like dan green, alex, minor gals like holly and swan, and you know a few others in our area that have been huge and they, like they became these people that all these young kids look up to now and you know, just showing them like, hey, I got a golden ticket this past year.
Speaker 3:I have no doubt in my mind that now dan green thinks that he can do it too, like because he can beat me any day of the week. And alex myers same deal he just broke my course record. That can all that can all trace 50k like 10 minutes. So if, if I can get a golden ticket, he can go get a golden ticket. I just think it's going to be something that hopefully it's it catches on in our area. You know it's not like there's a lot of people in West Virginia that are known for being really good at ultra running, but I think it's a place where it can happen.
Speaker 1:You guys got some, some tough trails down there. You got some great organizations and I will put a a bit of a caveat on the course record getting broke. Uh, he did it in April. I was down there last August, you were. Yeah, it was one of the most miserable running experiences I've had. Not because of the race organization. First off, terrific 10 out of 10 to them, hats off. Nice little pre-race meal the night before at the campground. Everything was great. Course was very well marked. Even I couldn't take a wrong turn. But it was 85 degrees and 70 degree dew point and it was hot like wickedly hot down there. And I think you know there's got to be some sort of. You know Strava has the gap adjustment. I think maybe we have like a heat index adjustment, maybe I don't know.
Speaker 3:We definitely need it yeah, we definitely need it. Yeah, I will say that it was a lot cooler this year. Um, it started off in the 30s and maybe got into the 50s. So yeah, caveat. Yeah. But to be honest, like he still would have beat me, I think, like if I would have raised him that day because I ran with my dad, it was his, uh, 55th birthday and just wanted to have a special kind of time with him, uh, so me and him ran together and it's really fun, but I did have a little bit of fomo, like I knew alex was up there crushing in the front and I kind of wish I was doing that too. But yeah, I mean I'm sure there'll be other opportunities in the future to go after it so you mentioned you ran that with your dad instead of racing.
Speaker 2:So like, why don't we talk about that a little more, about that like running with your dad?
Speaker 3:it was. It was two-part. So I have been dealing with a little bit of a, I wouldn't say, but, like you, had some SI joint issues and a hip flexor strain and actually just found out that I had like a micro tear in my tendon, like in my hip flexor, so it wasn't smart to race anyway. Like the original plan was just to do the 50K, try to nail it, try to run as fast as possible, but I knew it wasn't like the best idea. So whenever me and my dad were talking about it cause he was going to run as fast as possible but I knew it wasn't like the best idea, so whenever me and my dad were talking about it cause we were, he was going to run as well I was like dad, why don't we just run together? Like it's been a long, long time since we've run really even a normal run together.
Speaker 3:We had a really cool moment at a Bandera where I struggled.
Speaker 3:It was a very rough day and he was able to pace me for the last like four or five miles, maybe a little bit more than that, but a really cool moment. So I really wanted to return the favor and, you know, pace him for the full thing, you know, because I was already signed up and he was signed up, so we agreed to run together. He had some pretty big goals, as always A goal, goal c, goal, um, and we we went for the a goal, like we went hard, uh, we went to try to break five hours and you know, maybe we were a little too aggressive because where it was so cool we were able to get after it, uh, early on. And, as you know, casey probably knows the terrain of it, because the last bit, so much similar than 25k to 50k, the elevation gain is kind of bookended where you have a lot in the beginning and a lot in the end. So those last couple hills really took a toll on him. But you know what?
Speaker 2:we had a good time but let's be honest, let's be honest, you, you kind of come by it honestly because your dad's kind of a beast he's kind of a beast, I mean he's kind of the toughest guy I know. So he is an absolute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can go, he can go, and sometimes I think it gets in his own head like he believes he like he's going to be in the race and all of a sudden something like a little minor thing will happen and he'll start like doubting himself. I'm like dad. First off, you're a psychologist.
Speaker 3:You should be able to get over this, like with your mental uh, jedi powers but two like you know you're, you're gritty, you're tough and you train so well, like trust in your training. Um, there's this one point we had, probably about six or seven miles ago, and he, he claimed he lost his climbing legs. I'm like dad, we do hard things right.
Speaker 3:And he like looked at me, he's like yeah yeah, we do hard things and he started picking up going up this one hill. I was like, hopefully that sticks with him and comes up mantra, because like it's what I see in him every day, that's what gets me to run, like I want to be just like dad and, uh, you know, if I can get him to push through a hard time, then I think it makes it worth it.
Speaker 2:That's awesome man.
Speaker 1:I know Charlie has a goal of Charlie is your father for those. I know he has the goal of running a hundred miles this year so you know I texted him all the time, met him at the canal Porter, I text him so I got, so I gotta actually gonna. I'll text him after this and and see, I know we're talking about javelina, possibly canal, so we're gonna get him out there, him and I, for 100 miles, so that'll be pretty cool oh yeah, I'm excited for that all right, yeah, because canal would be perfect.
Speaker 1:It's, there's plenty of fruit spots for it. But you know, having set the course record there, yeah, canal's a good one. Canal's a good one, I think, for him. So that's cool, you guys. You know, make running a family thing. That's one thing we've noticed here is people that either have a significant other or you know family that really supports them. It seems to really coincide with their performance. I know jeremy, you know holly's awesome. She, she travels all over with you, the girls, and certainly makes a difference. Because you'll read stuff on the internet Like, oh my, my wife hates that I run these and you know it's a detriment to our relationship and stuff.
Speaker 1:But if that's your hobby, if that's your passion yeah, it's awesome to have support like that, so bravo to Charlie.
Speaker 2:Crusher. He's an absolute legend. I love it.
Speaker 3:and the nicest guy ever ever, I mean truly I just think it's so cool how we all kind of met at a race, like me and jeremy met at thunder buddy, but like after that, you know, I had no clue who casey was. But whenever I finished canal corridor, we started talking like we knew each other for years. And part of that's because you guys, your dad, you know, jeremy and casey all kind of like got together and, you know, talked a lot, you know, while crewing me. But like I had no clue who casey was, but like when we were talking it just felt normal, like it felt like he was part of the family, part of the group. And same thing for Jeremy, same thing for Arlen. Like I know my parents talk about all the time where they went to dinner with Arlen and just fell in love with him, like like he was just telling some of the most bizarre stories that I don't know. I don't even remember what the story was, but it just it just made him laugh a lot.
Speaker 2:It's the craziest thing, though that that's ultras right. People just hang around at aid stations. They chit, chat with one another and their best friends afterwards Like it's, it's a really cool thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and like to me you and me, jeremy I just loved being able to hear your story Because that was like what I was looking forward to the whole time. Like you know, arlen was amazing. He did a great job pacing me but like I was definitely ready to pass the torch to you Because I had already heard everything about Garland and so I was ready just to you know, get, jeremy. And like I didn't even know, we were at the same Boston Marathon 2018. We had a connection there that was already built. And then just hearing how you overcame your story of how you started running that's a cool story. It got my mind off of everything. I just was so involved with your story that all of a sudden, it was like 12 miles ago and Jacob Moss was right ahead. We could see him and we all started trying to catch him. Um, it just you know, at the end of that race, I just felt like I had a family up in akron that's awesome, man.
Speaker 2:Just a like the canal corridor is a. It's a unique race man. I, I really really like it. And man running those miles with you, it was. That was the time of my life, it really was. You were absolutely crushing and like I truly couldn't even believe, you know, at the end of an ultra, that somebody still had that power. Man, it was. It was something special to watch.
Speaker 3:It really was was it pretty surprising that you saw you. You guys like saw me and Hollyann come up instead of Jacob Cause, like the last time I saw you he was so well ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean. So I know the course is a mile behind me over my shoulder and I run it all the time. So I know, like the real splits of what you know, the actual like down to like a hundred feet mileage. I run it all the time. So I know, like the real splits of what you know, the actual like down to like a hundred feet mileage.
Speaker 1:And I was sitting there figuring it out with with Annie and I was like, man, like he, he's, he's catching them, but like he's got to do some work here in the last you know, we have about a mile and a half left I was like he's going to really have to put in a big one. So standing there at the finish line I was like, ah, hey, hats off to him for giving it all. And then you came across. I wouldn't say I was surprised, but it was a huge effort. The last, you know, probably I'd say your last five miles split had to be pretty quick compared to any other 5K in the race. It lasts two miles.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because, like, actually, I think my slowest mile was probably a good four or five to go, because it was getting dark and I didn't have a light with me and I don't know. Everything was just shutting down and I was to. To be honest, I was very content with getting second. I was like, dude, we're running fast, I'm gonna have a really fast pr like this is awesome. I kind of just want to coast it in and enjoy it. And then holly, and kept saying she's like you know, you're going to be upset with yourself if you just settle a second. I'm like, no, I don't think so. I think I'm gonna be pretty happy with it. But she kept saying that over and over again. And then you probably know exactly where it's at. It's like where the trail connects into like there's this little hill and it's almost like a tunnel where there's like lights and I think there's a maybe interstate or road that goes over like the tunnel, like over the tunnel, and you come out on the road and then you're on the road for like a little bit and that's the point where we saw his white shirt at the top and he was stopped. I was like, oh no, first off. This is a race now. And then two, I was like I don't want to pass it if he stopped, like I was thinking he was stopped for a car or something and I just didn't think that was right. But then the closer we got, he was just tired. I mean, maybe he was cr for a car or something and I just didn't think that was right. But then the closer we got, he was just tired. I mean, maybe he was cramping or something.
Speaker 3:But at that point he saw us and he started running again and Hollyann made a very decisive move where she sprinted up to catch him and I just followed and then she passed him. We didn't stay with him very long. She passed him and then started talking to him. We didn't stay with him very long. She passed him and then started talking to him Like, hey, jacob, you're doing awesome, great job.
Speaker 3:And then he mentally broke, I think, if he's listening, I'm sorry, I don't mean to rehash that, but there was something about it where she said something, he broke and then we took off and it felt like we were running four-minute miles, but in reality it's like six minutes, I think. But still, six minutes at the end of a ultra is pretty, pretty quick and, uh, I don't know big boost of energy with that and then coming up like with maybe a quarter mile to go, you could see like basically you'd see the finish line. You'd be like that left hand turn and you're right there. And that's where I saw jeffrey. Is it benati, the guy right there who makes those maps? I saw him there and he was screaming, he was yelling, cheering and it got me pretty fired up. I don't know, it was just cool.
Speaker 1:And that is the only hill on the course, the only hill on the course. Up and down. That is it. That is the one. There's a couple little undulations here and there, but yeah, that, yeah, that was such a cool thing. I mean to run 100 miles, and what was it? You're separated by a minute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was about a minute or two.
Speaker 1:A minute or two somewhere in between there. That that was crazy that was that was one of the the cooler moments I've got to witness in in ultra running actually live and in person was was that?
Speaker 2:finish there that's it was.
Speaker 2:It was just as cool as could be being there too, running those miles with you, and it was. You were so consistent. Everything was just bam, bam, bam. And then you know I hop out, so holly ann hops in, and then just we, we headed straight to the finish and it's like who's gonna get here? It's gonna be quick, let's see who comes around the corner. And I remember we could see the lights and we didn't quite know who it was. You know it was uh, it was hard to see. But then it's like it's caleb.
Speaker 1:What the but that was awesome, of course, with beers in hand, because it does that. Missing falls brewery top-notch brewery here in akron ohio, so if you're ever in town, check them out.
Speaker 2:Very good yeah shout out and always good for a hundred miler to finish at a brewery. Yeah, always, yeah.
Speaker 1:They do open up at 5 am too. Back for the runners, so that's good oh yeah. But one thing I noticed with that Caleb, your strategy you weren't. You never really seemed to press you, just you kind of did your own thing, you didn't get caught up. Because that's his specialty is running long flat races, correct? The young man?
Speaker 3:I forget his name, uh, jacob yeah, oh yeah, he's a 24-hour guy, like he loves the. Uh, there's grueling, you know 24, 48 hour track races where you're just grinding it out. Um, I didn't really know much about him until like a couple of days before. I was like kind of looking through the list. I saw him and I was like, well, he's probably going to be the guy to be, because he ran Tunnel Hill and probably ran like 1250, I think. And then I saw he qualified for USA team, for the 24 hour team. I was like, well, that means he's tough, because anybody can run a track for 24 hours is not a guy I want to mess with, because anybody can run a track for 24 hours is not a guy I want to mess with. And then, like at the beginning of the race he took off like a bat out of hell and I remember talking to a few guys. They're like, oh shoot, I think he's going for the American record. I'm like, okay, well, I'm just going to ignore that because if he gets it, that's awesome. Like I want to be part of a race where a guy gets an American record, but I've, if he gets it, that's awesome. Like I'm gonna be part of a race where a guy gets american record but I I'm not.
Speaker 3:I've never done a flat 100 before. Like I mean, rim to river is not mountainous by any means, but it's definitely hillier has like like 12 000 feet elevation gain. So I don't want to. I've never done this is out of my element. So I'm just going to try to control what I can and eat as much as I can, hydrate well and just focus on what I feel like and just go from there.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, I had a goal and I had a like a time goal and everything, but I did not know what to expect at all. Um, and that's kind of how I feel about western states as well. I mean 18 000 feet elevation gain, but a ton of loss somewhat at altitude. Like there's a lot of factors in this one. That's going to be out of my element. So it's going to be a cool little learning experience, like for western, and that's how I get really excited about it, because I mean there's definitely a lot of pressure just that I put on myself. But then again, like it's the first time doing it. So why? Why put pressure on yourself? Just go have out, have fun and see what happens.
Speaker 3:And that's what I did at Canal Corridor and it definitely worked out, but I definitely didn't like know it was going to end up like that because like I tried to catch him for the last 50 miles, or maybe even more than that, and like I didn't feel like we were making any ground up at all and where it's a double out and back, I could see where he was whenever he'd turn around and you know, face me so I mean me and Jeremy did a pretty good job of like counting whenever we passed him, how far he was ahead and stuff. But like still didn't know and I remember, like just joking with Jeremy, like every single person that we passed said that he's right up there ahead of us. I'm like no, he's not, cause we can't see him and you've been saying that for the past like two hours he's not there.
Speaker 1:You have a lot of composure for a runner, cause there's guys that and girls that get caught up in the beginning. You know the start. I mean, I'm in the middle of the pack and I see people do it all the time. Just the middle of the Packers, back of the Packers, front of the Packers, back of the Packers, front of the Packers.
Speaker 1:Just go out and blow up man hats off to you for that composure because you sat in and just worked all day and didn't really let him dictate to you what was going to happen. Hopefully you do that there at Western States and get a good result out of it. I think you will. One thing I wanted to ask you, caleb your coaching career. We've mentioned that you you had a runner qualified for nationals for the first time in martial history correct cross country yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So we've had a couple men qualified, but she was the first female athlete to qualify for the national championship. Yeah, shout out, abby herring, shout out, abby herring. She's the goat man, she's, she's so much fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a fun time. You know I follow you on instagram and just watching that was was pretty cool. I ended up watching the finals and, yeah, awesome for her. Does she have a future in ultra running, you think?
Speaker 3:you know, it wouldn't surprise me at all. So she's actually already got her uh first marathon planned after season's over. She went to her and her friend group they actually a lot of them graduated last year and they all want to do Boston. So she's trying to get a qualifying time for Boston in June and then she really wants to hit Columbus pretty hard, like she wants to actually race Columbus. So I'm going to be training her for that. But you know how I do it. I'm just going to gradually, just you know, introduce the idea of trails. You know, little by little, and who knows, after she qualifies for the trials you may want to pick up the Black Canyon bug or something. Hey, yeah, she'd be a killer.
Speaker 3:She's what was her 5k pr so indoors she's run 1606 for 5000 um. She ran a 3308 10k uh back in, yeah, late march. So that's kind of what we're looking at right now is the 10k. I mean she's great. Five um actually pretty good, the 1500 as well, but we want to really focus on the 10 and uh, you know, hopefully she can mess around and win conference again and then she's already qualified for the first round of nationals uh for outdoor track for the 10k uh, it's in lexington, kentucky. If she's in the top 12 there she'll go to eugene oregon.
Speaker 1:So we're going to do everything we can to get her there yeah, good, good for her, good for you being such a good influence on, on the team and we wish you the best in that for sure and and hopefully things can go well down there in west virginia for you and keep the thundering hard going in the right direction I hope so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's been a fun ride. I will say for the last eight years it's been been fun and I think the best part about my job, besides like being able to, like you know, prod them along in the right direction, is like I get to run with some really talented kids, like really talented athletes. I mean, like I said, it's kind of a, it's a curse where I'm like I've kind of walked into a schedule where, you know, I can't run gordon waterfalls this year because I have a track meet or I can't run black canyon or whatever, but like I get to run with some awesome athletes and it makes me better. And yeah, maybe sometimes I do the workouts with them. A lot of times I don't just because I feel like if I run, I work out with a group, I'm neglecting the rest of the groups and usually my workouts have like three, four or five different groups going on, so it's hard for me to pick and choose one over the other.
Speaker 3:But whenever I am able to run workouts with the kids, it's a lot of fun and they get kind of hyped for it, especially with the men's team. They don't want to get beat by me and I do everything I can to stay with them. So they're a lot faster than I am, but I'm definitely grittier. So like I try to really push the pace, even if it's not like the design pace. I want them to go like, I want them to be tough and I want them to compete. So I'll like put surges on them at different points when they're not expecting it and try to get it up and just to go with me. And I get it up and just to go with me, and a lot of times they blow me out of the water at the end, but a lot of other times I make it honest. So it's, it's fun, yeah, and then run with Abby too. Goodness, like I don't need to really slow. I don't slow down at all, actually. Actually, I just try to hang on for your dear life.
Speaker 1:I imagine there's not too many coaches you know out in college that are running ultras and at least successfully as you have with you know grindstone, canal, corridor, gorges, so it's also gotta be a pretty unique recruiting tool. I imagine like hey, here's my coach. He's still out here doing it. You know he's done these things at these races. That's, I mean, I, if I was a kid I'd look at that and be pretty. You know he's done these things at these races.
Speaker 3:That's, I mean I, if I was a kid I'd look at that and be pretty, you know yeah, I don't know if it works or not, but, like it, our director of track and field, um, he definitely brings it up a lot and he's like did you guys know that he got a golden ticket? I'm like they don't know what that means. Man, like it doesn't matter, let's talk about it and then he'll bring up the documentary, uh, into the well a lot. I'm like guys like let's just let him get on the team first and then we'll, then we can bring that up yeah, casey, have you watched that thing?
Speaker 1:yeah, I did. I watched it today. Uh, that was very well done documentary. I mean, that was, that was a legit, you know full production, it wasn't just like shot on someone's iPhone.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, like that whole story was pretty cool, the way it all came out. Like this is 2020. So, you know, the world shut down and everything, and like Rim to River was like the only race that hadn't like got canceled yet and we were just waiting for it to get canceled. And I remember getting an email about like we're doing wave starts and I was in the first wave, but I remember hollyann wasn't she was uh, where it was based off ultra signup scores. She had a zero because she had never run ultra before.
Speaker 3:So I just reached out to the race director, brian baker, and I was like, hey, man, like I got an athlete who's running the race and she wants to compete to win. Um, it'd be really cool if you could move her up to like the first couple waves so she has a chance to actually, you know, do well, rather than try to pass people the whole day. And he's like, oh, dude, that's awesome. Like do you think she'd be part what part? Of a documentary? And I was like I mean I'm sure she would, I I'll ask, but I'm sure.
Speaker 3:Now, like thinking to myself, like I mean I want to be part of a documentary, like I think it'd be cool, but whatever. So they got in connection and everything and Anthony, the film director, you know, did some photo shoots with her and stuff early on and I happened just to be there, like I heard that they were filming and I just kind of showed up and was kind of weird in the background and Hollyann kind of convinced them to start interviewing me and then they're like, oh, this is cool and maybe we'll put him in the documentary as well.
Speaker 1:And it kind of worked out to the cool story where they followed me around yeah, no, I was. It was really cool story just from a personal point and the race point. It really combined both elements pretty well. You know talking about interviewing you and Holly, holly Ann throughout the day and beforehand, but yeah, the quality was good. Yeah, COVID had shut down because Annie came downstairs when I was watching it. She's like why do they have masks on? It's like it was like 2020 when this thing happened.
Speaker 3:Like yeah, it just seems like a lifetime ago, that's for sure.
Speaker 3:But uh, something else that's kind of funny is, like some of the like the pre-race stuff, like the interviews, you can just tell we're so naive and like we didn't know what we were doing at all.
Speaker 3:Like there's this point where holly and says something like yeah, like no one knows how to train for 100 mile race, and now we, like we laugh about it because, like yeah, there's a lot of people that know how to train for 100 mile race actually it's pretty common but we had no clue how, though. There's just a lot of stuff, stuff that just makes us laugh, because we just didn't know what we were doing and we just went out there and wung it and, you know, fell in love with it, which, which is cool, it's a cool story that we, like you know, obviously went back and you know, she won the female title, was fourth overall, uh, the next year. And then, like me, like being able to race my pacer, dan, was so cool next year, like we had a really good race that year yeah, and you guys are doing a lot down there in the ultra world that the group that put it on rim to river, you.
Speaker 1:You guys have a number of races. It looks like I was looking it up before with dav and nine 10 ultras Highland sky I know that's a favorite around here. Oh yeah, going down to Highland sky. You've won that how many times?
Speaker 3:So I was, I was top five a couple of like a lot of times, um, I think. I've only won it twice though Past two years.
Speaker 2:Caleb, so will you. It's two weeks before Western. I know you're on AJW's podcast and you guys were talking about it and he's like come on, man.
Speaker 3:He got me really thinking about it, that's for sure. But I talked to Bob Luther, who's the race director for Canals Trace 50K and he's also doing Western this year. He got in through the lottery. It's not a good idea. I just something would happen. I'd probably turn my ankle or I don't know fall and I would hate to like not be able to run Western because I did something stupid two weeks before. Now I did, you know, talk to AJW. I'm like, well, I mean technically you could trip and fall outside your door or like going down the stairs, so like you shouldn't live life like that. But I'm gonna try to be smart and and not do it, although it's tough because dan's doing it this year.
Speaker 1:Dan green, I think you're smart, I know normally I'd send it and do it, but I mean, you gotta, I'm gonna have you in my free trail top 10, so I need you.
Speaker 3:I need you in top, top condition for this, you know, yeah, you got a lot of money making on that, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:I didn't know if you know this or not, but I did win the UTMB free trail fantasy contest. I don't know Did you really yeah, I was number one.
Speaker 3:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I put a lot of pride into it. Jeremy knows that.
Speaker 2:I do know that I've heard this a few times. This is Casey's claim to fame, right here, that's it.
Speaker 1:That's what I got.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's the Catalina wine mixer. Of it all, that's the best one to get.
Speaker 2:I mean he got, was it head to toe Hoka outfit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got head to toe.
Speaker 3:Did you really?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and 364 days of bragging Was it head to toe Hoka outfit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got head to toe, did you really? Yeah? And 364 days of bragging? Oh yeah, you think it's only going to be 364? We're getting years out of this, years For sure. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what's more impressive winning the thing or winning the UTMB free trail fantasy. Are you serious? Yeah, I mean, I don't know what's more impressive winning the thing or winning the UTMB free-trail fantasy. I'll be serious.
Speaker 2:One thing I did see here on Caleb's Ultra sign-up is this Javelina 100-miler.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, October 26th. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm excited man.
Speaker 3:So yeah, watching Dan just crush it last year you know getting fourth, like it really.
Speaker 3:Like I was at our conference championship and I'm not going to say that I was watching that over my own, like you know the kids, but like I kept checking periodically throughout the meet and then we actually had a kid go to the hospital, unfortunately for dehydration and overheating. So I'm like in the hospital waiting room just watching Dan, like on the third loop. I think I'm just like cheering him on while waiting in the in the hospital. So like it just seems so much fun and yeah, I'm not like a super mountain guy, like utmb, you know hard rock, those races seem a lot fun but like it probably doesn't fit my like what I'm strong at but heavily it kind of does. Like I don't know about running the desert a whole lot, but like just the setup, the kind of low elevation where it's just a runner's race, where you just run hard the whole time, try to make some really good chest moves, the whole. Like I think that's going to be a lot of fun. Um, so that's kind of like the. That's the.
Speaker 3:A race besides Western on my of my year is heavily, you know, although I'm really sad to not do grindstone because like grindstone became a race where I mean, jeremy knows I ran the course a lot that summer so I knew pretty much every corner of that course and you know the the last finishing were what? Three weeks before the race, where we went up and finished it, me and Jeremy, which was crucial. It helped a ton, I think, going into the race. But I love Virginia, I love everything about that course. I think it's a race I really want to do again, but then again, like you, got to do some different stuff too. You can't just go back to the same races over and over again, so kind of taking a leap of faith and doing the half a lane this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the grindstone was another one. Certainly not good conditions for you guys out there. Well, me either. I did run that. Well, I moseyed around the course for a while, but I got it completed so I was happy. But that was a brutal day that I got it completed, so I was happy, but that was a brutal day that was driving rain. There wasn't any sleet because it didn't get quite that cold. But that's what I would think of would be your strong suit, caleb, running in shit like that Because you're Appalachian I'm from, basically the Appalachian.
Speaker 2:That's kind of the weather we get. Is you know that? Just crappy shitty maybe not hurricane, maybe we don't need the hurricane remnants.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that's what I thought you would have told us. Is that's what you look forward to is mountain stuff?
Speaker 3:Okay. Well, let's talk about grindstone for a second. So, Jeremy, correct me if I'm wrong. Did you like like? I mean, I thought that the weather was actually really good for the 100k.
Speaker 2:I, I thought it was spot on, like it was the best scenario, like okay, so going into the race.
Speaker 3:I prepared for it to be hot, humid and just miserable. That's what I was expecting for the race. I prepared for it to be hot, humid and just miserable. That's what I was expecting for the race and I do think like that would that would have changed things. Like the people that did really well, especially from the you know they're from like the mountain west side of this, the country who did well I just think they would have struggled a lot had it been normal, if it was humid, like normal. You know virginia is not a very accommodating place in terms of humidity, but where that hurricane came in it was nice, like I think the hundred miles got the worst of it because a lot of the wind and the rain was like that night beforehand and the night after. So like if you were finishing in the night and starting in the night, like I think that was so much worse casey, you didn't, you didn't think so.
Speaker 1:So this is the hobby jogger podcast and I will say that there is a stark, stark difference in what we thought was ideal conditions at the back of the pack. To these two who were in the front of the pack, I've never been so cold. David, our producer here, had to give me the shirt off of his back because I was out of dry clothes. Literally, my legs were shot. I was freezing cold, I was shivering. I think I was blue. I saw a gentleman fall in a creek. I was unable to help him. That was too bad, but yeah, I was to help him. That was too bad, but yeah, I was. Now you had already been like. You probably had four or five beers by the time I finished and taken a nap, caleb. So well, I know Jeremy got to go to like McDonald's or something.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you had eaten and vastly different experience in the middle. To back of Packard I will say but I did finish, I did persevere and I got across the finish line when a lot of people did drop out that day a lot of people did. There are a lot of drops. It was. It was not easy, I do.
Speaker 1:However, I do agree with you where the guys from out west would have definitely struggled in the virginia heat had it been one of those like warmer, sunnier virginia days, because they're not used to that humidity that virginia gets down, because it's pretty much like a swamp area all of that side of the mountains of virginia. So, uh, I think I could be wrong. Someone fact check me. And it's not as long, yeah so, but yeah, I agree with the heat. Probably would have favored you guys. I know Jeremy runs up. I mean he's the king of the Burning River, 50 miler he is. Yeah, which is at the end of July and it can be just scorching hot out here that day. So yeah, I would agree with that assessment of it.
Speaker 2:I just like conditions. Conditions are great, great. I love it. Make it nasty, dirty, sticky. Well, you're a mutter definitely sticky. Yeah, jeremy likes the mud I have to deal with the mud more. So, yeah, but you enjoy it a little bit, it's a great equalizer mud is a great equalizer, I think it's it.
Speaker 3:Isizer, I think it's, it is for sure. See, that's the thing too. You know, back to grindstone. Like it rained a lot but you couldn't tell on the course it wasn't muddy, it was just, I mean, the rocks. I don't know. The drainage system on that trail was really good, because there was not a point in the race where it was muddy, except for maybe the dirt roads, but footing was awesome the whole day. I mean, I fell, but that's what happened, I don't know. I just thought that everything was super runnable. I kind of expected it to be a lot worse whenever I saw the forecast and saw how the rain was supposed to be really bad and the wind and everything. But it definitely wasn't and it made for a pretty competitive, like actually running race, which I thought was good yeah, I agree with you, it wasn't.
Speaker 1:It was not muddy at all for it, having rained that much, there was. I don't even, jeremy, what do you? Do you think there was any mud? I don't even remember there being mud I honestly no.
Speaker 2:I mean it's also so rocky, and then some some of its mountain bike trails, so they do a good job of maintaining it. For sure, I don't remember any mud really. It was slippery on the rocks, but not too bad. Like caleb said, gravel roads were just kind of goopy, I don't know gravel roads, I mean they're.
Speaker 1:You know there was gravel roads, I guess. But yeah, no, I I agree with that. I guess I never really thought of that, yeah, no mud and yeah, I mean, hey, you got a golden ticket out of it, caleb. So yeah so whoever was is worth it. You're on to the big show here, so that's that's what it was all about you and another Caleb one correct.
Speaker 3:You did. Yeah, caleb Olson. So that was a fun experience, like racing another cable, because I mean I don't feel like that's a common name, but I mean having two people in the same race. So we actually met during the race about, let's say, mile maybe six or seven. We were on the ridgeline about to come down, like the very first ridgeline coming down, and I had just gotten dropped by the main pack Because it was that awkward time where the sun's rising but it's still dark outside. So I couldn't really see very well and like you didn't really need a light, but you kept the light on and it's a little bit rocky in that section. So I like slowed down and you know, the pack went out.
Speaker 3:Uh, you know, justin, david roche, jeff, uh, I can't say the last name. There's a lot of pretty good guys in there. So they all take off and I'm kind of like, oh, that sucks, like I'm by myself, let's just get down the hill see what happens. And as we're going down the hill, a guy came up behind me. He's like hey, man, how you doing, like doing pretty good. And we started talking and he asked what my name was and I said Caleb. He's like, oh, that's cool. And I was like, yeah, it's kind of cool because there's another caleb in this race. Uh, caleb olsen, somewhere, I think he's up ahead, and he's like no, he's not. And I turn over and tim like he's right behind me. So that was cool to kind of meet him. And then he took off. He passed me going down the hill but we actually reconnected back. Um, actually, jeremy, do you remember where we started our little trail weekend? That like aid station area?
Speaker 3:yep down at the bottom yeah, we met going up that hill again, me and him connected into the lead pack going up that hill, which was pretty cool and we we ran with them going down that really steep section, uh down back to the road, which I was really impressed with because I never I'm not a downhill runner like a really good downhill runner but I was able to like kind of open up a gap on one of those guys, which was really weird. Funny enough, I actually took a wrong turn at the bottom of that hill on the road because they had that little makeshift aid station there and it was leading away from the right direction. I got some water and I started going the wrong way and if it wasn't for Caleb Olson, I'd probably still be in Harrisburg right now because I was running that direction and he's the one that called me over. That kind of spooked me, because I don't like letting people put a gap on me just because I'm stupid and went the wrong direction. So I put a good surge in and passed everybody, kind of, because because I was embarrassed, I didn't want to talk about me going the wrong way at the time. I thought I was in third place because I could see a guy up ahead and I thought justin grunewald was ahead of everybody. I don't know why I thought that, because I guess he wasn't, but in my mind I was in third.
Speaker 3:We go through the north river gap aid station and then we start on to the wild oak trail and I finally passed drew mccumber, who is in second. Uh, around the 50k mark, maybe a little bit before after I came off that hill, the next aid station told me I was in, I was winning. I was like no, I'm not like, I'm in second, like justin grunewald had me. He's like well, you're the first person I've seen, so if you're not in first, uh, something went wrong and I was like oh shoot, I'm leading a golden ticket race. That's scary, but it's also really kind of like. I kept an even keeled mind about it, cause in my mind I was like hey, even if I don't win, I led this thing at one point and it wasn't like I led it in the very beginning, like I led it in the middle. That's that means something to me, like I did something right.
Speaker 2:Caleb, in that moment, like but did you have a little bit of comfort, knowing what was coming, like cause? You knew that course, like the back of your hand at that point right, like you knew I know what I've bit off, I know what I got to chew here.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, exactly, and at that point we're on the road section for what's four miles, I think, and that's a tough section because you're slowly going uphill but you can't really tell, but you just notice that your splits are going slower. And I remembered that I was like, okay, don't worry about it, like it's just going to happen, because I remember when we were out there running there was a bike race going on. I just remember it being really tough and I knew like, yeah, it definitely helped. And the crux of the race is that next climb, the uh what three miles straight up the mountain. So I knew exactly what to expect. Yeah, going into that aid station, I I knew what I needed to do. I got really hyped because, uh, do you know rachel limke, her husband, logan, plus my crew, you know, chris holland, my parents, lindsey, like everybody there was like they were firing me up because I was in the lead, but also, like logan, he like got my face. He's dude, you are an East coaster on East coast race. You got to do this for us. Man, like, this is your time. All these West coasters think they're so cool. You know they're going to come out here and dominate. This is your time, go put it on there.
Speaker 3:I like ran out of there without like even getting some of the stuff I needed. I was like, let's go. And I was like, going up the hill, I was like, oh shoot, maybe I should have waited a little bit. And the scary thing was, though, is, as I was going up the climb, I heard a place come in, and I had a feeling it was Caleb Olsen. I don't know why, I just had a feeling that it was him. So I tried everything possible to run up that whole section Didn't happen. I had to walk a few times because, like, at that point, what you're mile 40 something. And yeah, I may have gone a little too hard whenever I got excited there on the road section, because I just I lost. I lost a lot of energy going up that hill.
Speaker 3:But then, as I was coming down that's a pretty steep seven mile sectioning downhill, and I ran that faster than I've ever had before. I'd run that thing probably five times in training Felt really good, but I could tell that somebody was right behind me. I can hear people or somebody running up above me, and that kind of freaked me out. It definitely made me run faster, but I just knew I was getting like hawked down and I was going as fast as possible. So, finally, going to that aid station, I was just relieved I was done descending, because like a seven mile descent is pretty tough for me.
Speaker 3:At least get in, and it really wasn't that long, I think it's about maybe 30 seconds. And all of a sudden, like I didn't even hear him come, but like taylor had come and left, like he didn't take any time at all, I like look over, I'm like I see him leaving, like oh shoot, I didn't know. So that was the point in the race where I finally asked my dad the question how far back is third place? And he's like I'm not gonna tell you. I'm like, dad, I need to know, like I just need to know. Well, at the last aid station he was like 10 minutes off, like okay, that's all I need to know. I got a bubble and at that point I was trying to catch caleb because he had like he kept looking back and I kept trying to like make a move on him on that road section. But I knew there was a climb coming up and I did not think I was going to be able to do it very well. And sure enough, he put it on me up that climb.
Speaker 3:Yeah, after that the whole, like the rest of the race was just me like trying not to blow up because I knew like if I had to climb anymore it probably wasn't going to go well. But I knew there wasn't much left. It was all like road and downhill sections. You know, we finally get to the last little road and I'm pretty sure, like some of the salt lake crew were driving in a car and they had like whipped it around after they passed me and then they like slowly pulled up. They're like, dude, you're gonna get a golden ticket. Man, I was like I'm not there yet, like we have two more miles left, don't say that yet. And they just like screamed whoo and then flew off. I was like, okay, well, that's cool. And yeah, travis long car followed me to the finish and I was pretty cool. That's grindstone in a nutshell yeah, that's an awesome story.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you because I've never talked to you about it or or heard that, so that's awesome just what it takes to to go out there and win one, because it was a tough race.
Speaker 1:I mean there was, there was a lot of guys who could go in that thing yeah, um, one thing before we go, caleb, I want to ask you what's our strategy for Western States? What are we looking at here? This is the big one. This is what we just had the grindstone story. What's our projection? What do you think we're going to do?
Speaker 3:I wish I could tell you. I think the main thing is I've had the most success whenever I don't really worry about everybody else. So I'm going to be really honest, I'm not going to check all the single track podcasts and the preview shows or anything like that, cause it really gets, it gets in my head a lot and it shouldn't. I know it shouldn't heck of my coach. I know how negative that can be, but for some reason I eat it up and like I just dwell on it too much. So, like before grindstone, I didn't look up who was in the race. I didn't know anybody or anything. I remember one time opened up twitter and they finally found like some like race entry, uh list. I like completely just didn't. I mean I didn't want to see it, I just I could off and just went about my day but to be honest, let's be honest, utmb didn't really uh they didn't do a good job, which was great.
Speaker 3:Like it worked out my favor and to be honest, I'm kind of mad but also happy that they didn't cover it at all. Like it'd been cool to have like an aerovipa type live stream, looking back on it being really cool, but like going into it, I'm glad it didn't, because I would have. I would have eaten it up too much. I think I was just trying to avoid comparison and all that. So if I can do that at western, it's going to help a lot. You know I'm really dumb. I'll go out with the leaders like I mean, that's, that's part of the experience you're not.
Speaker 1:You've, you've ran. You've ran too many races too smart. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna let you say that.
Speaker 2:Cause you're not.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, You're, you're not. I put you more of the cerebral runner that like grindstone. You couldn't see? Hey, we'll catch you guys. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3:You've run. You've run a lot of races, very, very smart. So I guess I do know, like, where my limit is and I know where that red line is pretty well. So yeah, I guess.
Speaker 3:So if I can feel that red line going up the first climb and like not way over my head, like yeah I'm gonna go out and I want to be in contact with, like the main group because obviously the goal is to get top 10. I want to come back, I want to be experienced, have the full experience of the first time and then come back and try to capitalize on it. It may not happen. You may have to try to come back again a different way, but the main thing is just try to keep cool and collected. Don't worry about anybody else. Heck, if you're 20th place at the 20-mile marker, that's fine, just let it happen. Focus on you and then try to manage the stuff you can't control, like the heat, like nutrition. I mean you can control it but you don't know how your stomach's going to respond. So, just trying to do everything possible to not have any disasters and just try to get through it, but also put yourself in a good position with like 20 miles to go. So I think if you can get the rucky Chucky and you're still feeling pretty good, you're in a good spot, because a lot of people are blown up by that point. I think a lot of people do. They get really excited when it gets to Forest Hill and then you have that super downhill section. That's really fast, but it's also really hot. Some people blow up there just because they kind of do what I did in Grindstone they put too much energy but they're going downhill so they don't even know it, but they're just bombing those downhills and all of a sudden they have nothing left. So just try to be smart with that. It's going to be huge, but the main thing is nutrition, heat, trying to control how hot I am. It's going to be big and then just try to keep my mentality even keel, just kind of let things happen, because things are going to go wrong. Everything is not going to go right. Just try to overcome just little things and manage as well as you can and then just put yourself in a good position at the end.
Speaker 3:Every time I run, especially around my house and stuff, I try to visualize parts of the course that I can, and I mean obviously it's like a good situation in my head overcoming a hard section, or you're trying to finish strong, uh, whenever you're like completely exhausted and fortunately I do know that feeling I've only done 300 milers, but I do know the feeling of 100 mile race I think that's going to help a lot. It's it's a feeling that you can't really describe until you do it. Even like 100Ks don't give you that same exhaustion like almost survival mode type feeling, and I'm sure if you did something longer it would be even worse. Knowing how you feel during that and how you can overcome it is going to be crucial, I think, training-wise, just doing a lot of vert. I want to be doing some double threshold type workouts and stuff, but mainly just for getting the mileage up, trying to get around a hundred miles a week If I can.
Speaker 3:I want to do a training race, the high ball, the Thurman 50 miler. It's in the New River Gorge, one of my favorite places when try out a lot of things with like nutrition and cooling during that time to kind of prepare for it. It's a six weeks out, so I wish it was like maybe one or two weeks farther out. But it'll be fun, not too worried about it. It has a lot of downhill, which I'm kind of excited about because it's gonna be good prep. We'll see, it'll be fun awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, that's. I'm rooting for you. I think you're gonna run smart and then you're to be out there punching in the last 20, 25 miles. So that's what I look forward to seeing you do out there, swinging away. Heck. Yeah, when you get to those later miles, I'll be rooting for you. I believe David and I will be out there.
Speaker 3:Oh heck, yeah Awesome.
Speaker 1:Jeremy, you're going right.
Speaker 3:Jeremy's racing man.
Speaker 1:Like don't let him pull you. Like he's getting off that wait list. He's going. I I fully believe that. You know, I just didn't want to jinx anything a bit superstitious, so yeah, I look forward to seeing, hopefully both of you run out there and I'm gonna be at that race.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna be there no matter what. So I'm excited, yeah.
Speaker 1:I know Will's going. He'll be out there. He's got important things to do or whatever, so you know. You know we'll see him, though We'll have a good time, and you got Charlie crewing right. I think I texted your dad, oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:Dad's crewing, mom's crewing, lindsey's crewing. I got Dan Green pacing Sweet Ryan Ramsby. He's a good friend. He actually ran Brownstone 100 Vial. He's crewing. I've got a lot of people from West Virginia who are going just to be happen to be in the area during that time, so they're not crewing but they might be cheering and stuff, which would be pretty cool.
Speaker 1:We'll serenade you with take me home.
Speaker 3:Yes, please do. Country roads will always get me home.
Speaker 1:We didn't get a chance to talk about it. Caleb is sponsored by Roman Run, who makes some awesome products. What is their website that people can check them out at Caleb?
Speaker 3:Oh shoot, I mean, I guess if you just Google Rub and Run or look them up on Instagram, it's probably the best way. Yeah, they've been awesome. I mean they definitely helped with getting me to Western States and Havileta as well. Well, I mean ryan ransby and the crew like they just do such a great job, uh, with rub and run. Um, I mean, I'm blessed to be part of the roman run elite. Yeah, definitely give them a shout. Give them, you know, look up their stuff. It's all like appalachian trail running themed, which I love because that's me in a nutshell.
Speaker 1:Hey, shout out, roman Run Marathons are for quitters is one of the T-shirts.
Speaker 3:I'm actually wearing that shirt right now. Are you wearing that shirt? I got to get one of those. Yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 1:Marathons are for quitters.
Speaker 2:I always wear my. I'd rather be running in the woods.
Speaker 3:Fun story about that shirt before we go. I turned 30 this year. I wore that shirt on my 30th birthday. I didn't even think any of it. My grandparents live at a state park. They're part of, like, the camp. They just work at the state park and we were supposed to have a little get together at the state park. It's going to be me, lindsay and my family. Well, I'm wearing this shirt and all of of a sudden I figure out it's a surprise party. There's like 50 people. I'm wearing this shirt that says I'd rather be out in the woods running instead of being at my surprise party, and I look like a fool because I'm wearing that. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Yeah, I get the most comments on that thing. It's awesome.
Speaker 1:It's a great shirt. I need to order my Marathon for Quitters shirt. I need to order my marathon for quitters shirt. I think I'll. I'll do that tomorrow here, now that I thought about it. But yeah, those guys, hey, they're making a great product. They're down there in West Virginia. I fully support them. I believe I met the owner at the Conaway trace 25 K last summer at the finish line. Did he run the race or was he just at the finish line?
Speaker 3:Uh, he probably did. Yeah, I think he did the 25K. What's his name? Ryan Ramsby. He's part of my crew and he's actually doing Cocodona here in like two weeks.
Speaker 1:All right, ryan Ramsby. All right, yeah, cool company, check them out. Roman Run we find them on Instagram. At Roman Run, you can find Caleb at. What is your handle on Instagram, caleb oh?
Speaker 3:gosh, I don't even know. Yeah, maybe just search Caleb Bowen, you might be able to find it.
Speaker 1:It is Coach Bowen, m-u-x-c. That makes sense. Yeah, coach Bowen. Marshall University, home of the Thundering Herd Caleb. We thank you very much for joining the Hobby Jogger telling some great stories about grindstone. I look forward to cheering you on at Western States. I know Jeremy does as well. Whether he's running or not, to be determined. We're going to hope that we get 74. Jeremy, we had 74. Is that where you were on the wait list?
Speaker 2:I was. 73rd is where I was.
Speaker 1:My apologies, sir. We look forward to that. I look forward to being out there seeing you. I look forward to seeing your father again. I need to text him figure out what hundred we're running.
Speaker 3:Sounds good, All right. Well, take care guys.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man.
Speaker 3:See ya.