The Hobby Jogger Podcast

E09 | Ryan Thrower Discusses The Evolution of Freetrail

• Hosted by: WeeViews & Branch Sauce • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Join the trail-running conversation as we take you on an adventure with Ryan Thrower, co-founder and creative mind behind Freetrail. Ryan sheds light on his partnership with Dylan Bowman, their efforts to elevate athletes in the sport, and the  joy of crafting stories through video and audio that encapsulate the essence of trail running. 

We talk with Ryan about his position on the Western States waitlist, and the anticipation of runners vying for a spot in this prestigious 100-mile race.  Also delving into Ryan's passion for music, this episode is for anyone who's ever felt the pull of the trail or the beat of a heart-pumping playlist.

Casey Koza:

Welcome back to another episode of the Hobby Jogger. I'm your host, Casey Koza, and today I'm joined by a special co-host, Will Walmsley. Will, how are you today?

Wil Walmsley:

I'm doing pretty well, thanks.

Casey Koza:

Will and I played rugby together here in Akron. He and our other friend, grant Johnson, helped me find my beginnings in ultra running, and he is also a mutual friend of our guest today, none other than Ryan Thrower. Now, ryan isn't just your average trail runner. He's also the co-founder and creative mind behind Free Trail, a trail running media company that's revolutionizing how we, the fan, experience the sport. We delve into the origins of Free Trail, explore how they're elevating athletes' exposure and even entering the world of ultra-race production. But that's not all. We'll also be peeling back a big part of Ryan's role within free trail, the world of video and audio production, because, let's face it, behind every captivating trail running story, there's a team working behind the scenes to be sure it looks and sounds amazing. Mr Ryan Thrower what's up, dude? You? Thanks for having me. Hey, man, thanks for being on. We appreciate your time. Yeah, of course, ryan is also joining us today during a Phillies game, rocking the old school Phillies hat.

Ryan Thrower:

Old school Phillies with the Phillies game on in the background.

Casey Koza:

We want to doubly thank him for taking time out of the Phillies. We were just talking about the Philly fanatic and the great memories we all have of him.

Wil Walmsley:

Yeah, hopefully it's a better season for the Phillies. Last time I talked with Ryan about baseball it happened to be my Diamondbacks beating his Phillies in the playoffs last year.

Ryan Thrower:

Yeah, that one still hurts. The year before we lost in the World Series and that hurt, but it was cool to be in the World Series. Then last year we lost and should have been in the World Series and lost to an inferior Arizona Diamondbacks team which made it really. It took forever to get over. I'm still getting over it clearly.

Wil Walmsley:

I'm not even going to argue that because Diamondbacks just making the playoffs felt surreal. I'm numb to losing at this point, growing up an Arizona fan.

Casey Koza:

Well, ryan, how did you guys get free trial started? What's kind of the origin behind that? Because I'm newer to the ultra scene really only because of Will. I'm kind of unfamiliar of where you guys started, because I'm newer to the sport as well.

Ryan Thrower:

Well, yeah, the idea we originally were called Pillars and we thought we were going to make an app for all athletes and it was going to be like balance between like yoga and breath work and just like both the psychological side and the emotional side and then the physical side and running. And then we started making stuff and we realized we were making stuff pretty much only for trail runners, because that's who we were and that's who we cared about most. So it started when I lived in seattle and dylan lived in portland and we met one night at a ginger runner event and um kind of hit it off. Just we're both chatty, kathys and we're chit-chatting over a couple beers and just became friends and I started producing the podcast.

Ryan Thrower:

And then dylan had the idea to do something more, and that's when we kind of started doing pillars. And then we weren't very far into it when we realized we needed to kind of change not just our name, because we did not like our name, but then we needed to change pretty much everything we were doing. And so we were about a year in and we switched to free trail and launched both gorge, and I had a feature-length film come out right at that time when we changed the release and so like that's a little bit of the backstory. As we just kind of stumbled our way through pillars, realized like all right, this isn't right and we decided we wanted to be basically a media company with a community and just kind of push the sport of trail running further as much as we could. So yeah, I guess that's a short answer. Yeah, we started making stuff together in 2020.

Casey Koza:

Okay, so relatively new. And I know there's, you know I'm I'm an entrepreneur myself, so I know the growing pains of any business or and I imagine that's tenfold with a media, you know, a media company doing producing races and stuff. I can't imagine the barriers and headaches that have gone into to what the product is today.

Ryan Thrower:

Yeah, so yeah, I picked up a camera in 2019. I met Ethan Newberry through a friend. I started helping him and then he put on an event with Dylan, which then I met Dylan there, and so then it like cascaded through there. So it's like all these like little things had to line up perfectly and then lots and lots of growing pains. But I think all the growing pains that we've gone through have brought us closer. Dylan's like a brother to me. He's one of my best friends, one of my favorite people in the world, and now, you know, I'm really close with harmony as well and their son roads and their dogs. It's like, yeah, I mean they feel like family. So it's been. All those like growing pains that you have is with a startup. You know, I'm sure they're not unique to us, although they feel unique to us.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, brings us closer, you know I I know I got to get one of those shred is life hats, but I just need to dude, first off, who. Who picked the font? Me, that was you. Yep gosh. Did you see it yet? Well, it's on their instagram I have it.

Ryan Thrower:

They have one of them's browns colors too. You know, yeah, yeah the color.

Casey Koza:

Actually, I just sent it to annie, my girlfriend the hat, because it's like that font. Is it from a tv show?

Ryan Thrower:

I don't know, I just found the font we made. We made a shirt that says shred his life. And then okay, because I used it for a trail culture shirt too. And then now we yeah, now we put out in the corduroy hat it's just yeah, I like it, I really like it.

Casey Koza:

Trail running will save the world. I believe it's one of your taglines, correct? Yeah yep, yeah, ryan, you said you stink at free trail fantasy.

Ryan Thrower:

I do. I got eighth or something once. Actually hold on, I have it open.

Casey Koza:

I thought I was going to come to you for some advice on how to get better at it. I got lucky once.

Ryan Thrower:

I got 47 to Chuckanut, I got 37 to Big Alta and I got six to Javelina. Baby, awesome Top ten. Other than that, lots of triple digits.

Casey Koza:

Will, did you know that I won the UTMB free trail? Did you know that?

Wil Walmsley:

You know, it's been a week since you reminded me. I almost forgot.

Casey Koza:

It is my biggest accomplishment. I last year won the free free trail utmb contest.

Ryan Thrower:

I think I've maybe mentioned it 600 times I think it's more impressive than actually winning utmb I.

Casey Koza:

I believe I have told the winner of utmb that I don't doubt it, it's so funny ryan, thank you for running that free trail fantasy. We appreciate it. Yeah well, shout out travis long car. It's so funny. Ryan, thank you for running that free trail fantasy.

Ryan Thrower:

We appreciate it yeah, well, shout out, travis Longcar. It's his, it's his baby, he created it. He's the genius behind it.

Casey Koza:

He's from Pennsylvania, so it makes sense. Yeah, shout out, travis. Thank you very much. Thank you for giving me joy and bragging rights. I appreciate it. My friends maybe don't appreciate me winning it, but they appreciate the free trail fantasy. Will and I were discussing that. Just what an awesome idea it was to put a little bit of focus on our star athletes, for and you guys have generally done this very well for a sport that's not exactly viewer friendly because we go out in some remote places, I know, like we were talking about, we have a lot of road running fans that might not understand that. When you do see this footage that these guys have, it wasn't easy to get back to your you know, like if there's a live feed or something, it's. There's some work that goes and it's involved in that. So, you know, hats off to you guys again for kind of, you know, setting the gold standard of how to view the sport, of a otherwise very unviewable sport where you might peru for someone and see him twice in 16 hours yeah, it is.

Ryan Thrower:

It is interesting. I mean, I feel, like aravipa was, you know, mountain outposts are kind of the first to really push the sport forward, in that sense, like with their live streams. Actually, they're live streaming. They live streamed Big Alto, they're live streaming Gorge, and then, yeah, lots of fellow video people that make recaps or tell stories about athletes, and I do think think, though, that that fantasy has really opened my eyes to not just the athletes, but some races, especially shorter distance stuff, like when you're voting for trail runner of the year or you're there's a 28k and you're like, okay, well, I need to not just click on these athletes, I need to see, like, what's their UTMB index, what's their ultra signup. And you go through and I'm like, oh, okay, well, now I actually know a little bit. It's like doing you know, I'm a big fantasy baseball guy, and it's pretty much the same thing Like you're just doing your research to see who you're going to pick. So, yeah, it's amazing.

Ryan Thrower:

I've always, always wanted to do fantasy for western states specifically. That was always in my head, but I just didn't know how to execute it. And then we met travis and he's like yeah, I already did it and this is way better than anything I would have thought of. So so it's cool. I I really think that part of what we do is awesome, for the athlete opens, you know, put some eyes on names, and and then too, if you you didn't pick that person, you didn't know, and they end up doing well, when you go to check your score you're like, oh, I picked this person to win, but they didn't win. Who did win? Oh, I don't know who this is, let me look them up a little bit. Or who got third, you know.

Casey Koza:

So I think it's pretty cool yeah, it certainly helped me figure out who people are, which is good because you know, know, athletes, professional athletes the more spotlight they can get, obviously the better, no matter what you know that is. And now sometimes I'm up at 6 am watching some race in Asia rooting for a lady. I have no idea who she is, but I got her picked for third in free trail. Yeah, and damn if I'm not going to cheer on to a third place victory. Yeah, nice podium.

Wil Walmsley:

So I know the first two people are in, but I got to figure out who's the fifth place finisher. This this could seal my deal.

Casey Koza:

And I I won't give well any of my strategy for the UTMB picks, taking that to my grave. My strategy for those Now to get a little bit to running here, since this is the hobby jogger. And Now to get a little bit to running here, since this is the Hobby Jogger and we do occasionally talk about running. We have Mr Ryan Thrower on who is, I believe, 32nd on the wait list for Western States, correct, ryan?

Ryan Thrower:

24, baby 24. I moved up, oh you're up, okay, so 24.

Casey Koza:

That's got to be like in right, we're in.

Ryan Thrower:

Yeah, I mean mean last year 56 got off the wait list. The year before all 75 got off the wait list. The year before that the wait list was only 50 big and everyone got off of it. But then, pre-pandemic, somewhere around 25 got in off the wait list. So you know, they changed the policy to kind of be waitlist friendly.

Ryan Thrower:

If, if I decided I didn't want to run and they were offering me a spot, I still get to keep my tickets. So I think that encourages the people who just aren't ready or get injured or just didn't train or didn't think they were going to get in to drop out, and they get to keep their tickets. And then I get to run the race. I moved up from 25 to 24 yesterday, I believe I get to run the race. I moved up from 25 to 24 yesterday. I believe my buddy, tim Tollefson, is like 60th on the wait list and he gets up before I do every day and if the wait list move I wake up. I have a text from Tim Tollefson saying we moved up one more.

Wil Walmsley:

That's amazing because Tim's run it a couple times and hearing he still gets excited. That's incredible hearing that. Yeah, Casey, do you want to explain what Western States?

Casey Koza:

is? We probably should, since we have mostly a majority road running audience. Western States prestigious trail race, 100-mile race, only 100 miles. There's no relay, there's no 50K version, there's no 50-miler runs from. Will you're going to have to handle that one for me where it runs from, because you've actually been out there and know it. I'm ill prepared for that.

Wil Walmsley:

Olympic Valley in California. Point to point yeah, 17,000 feet of gain, 22,000 descent, Used to be an old horse trail or horse race. Is it the oldest 100 miler in the US? Yeah, I think they claim the world. Yeah, it's the mecca.

Casey Koza:

super bowl championship for north american trail running now that my good friend wilkepedia that's what I call him, ryan wilkepedia, because I can just you know he rattles it off. He knows the facts. The elevation gain, loss. I knew he had that covered. How's the training going for it?

Ryan Thrower:

um, yeah, it's going pretty good. I think I have a coach, hannah Allgood. She's also my podcast co-host, trail Running Radio, and she's been whooping my butt into shape since January and so I'm somewhere around 70 miles a week with a couple of workouts, which is a lot of miles for me. I typically peak around 80. And I don't know what we're probably like 12 weeks out, maybe 10 weeks out from western states. So, yeah, I'm doing um tillamook burn 50 mile, um may 11th as my like tune-up race and so kind of, in the last little build before that, right now, and then then it's all. Things stays after that.

Casey Koza:

Well, I know I'm looking forward to following you. I don't know who's going to get the great camera footage out there, but I imagine you guys have someone figured out for that task.

Ryan Thrower:

We'll figure it out. I don't know who it is yet, but we'll figure it out.

Casey Koza:

Well, Will will be out there. You can strap a camera to him. There we go. Tell him to go chase people. I'll volunteer him.

Wil Walmsley:

Maybe after like 14, 15 hours I'll help towards the end of the race, kind of watching some of the other people coming in. Yeah, I might be a little bit busy before then. I hope so.

Casey Koza:

So you're running the Tillamook Tillamook. I'm glad you said it first Tillamook, Tillamook. I'm glad you said it first Tillamook 50 mile?

Ryan Thrower:

Yeah, where's that? At Outside of Portland Oregon, like maybe an hour away, tillamook Forest. It's put on by Daybreak Racing. They put on Gorge with us and the Big Alta we partner with them Great, great racing company. And so they have a 50 mile, a 20 mile and a 50k that weekend. I think my partner is running the 20 miler, I'm not sure and then dylan might also run the 20 miler and I'm doing the 50 miler, and so should be a fun time. Yeah, a 50 mile, I think is my favorite distance at least it was. I just haven't run one since like 2019, I think. But I always thought that was like you do it in a day. I'm not superhuman. I can't do 100 miles in a day, so you do 50 miles in a day. It doesn't completely destroy you. And then, uh, you don't have to skip a night of sleep, whereas like 100 milers, I run through the night, so you do have to skip a night of sleep.

Wil Walmsley:

Yeah, but when you do 100-mile hours, it's Switzerland yeah.

Ryan Thrower:

That looked cool. That was a proper effort. 2023, I did Swiss Alps 100. What?

Wil Walmsley:

was the race in Switzerland. What was that like as far as terrain? What were some of the highs and lows of that?

Ryan Thrower:

We were in good spirits, every man, step for step, with my friend kevin schmidt, and we were in pretty good spirits the whole time. So the highs were. I mean, we definitely had our moments. We're like, okay, ready to be done. We've been out here 30 plus hours, but it's the most beautiful course I've I've been on over utmb, over hardware, rock, over anything, and so it was just stunning. So anytime you're hurting, uh, you just look around. Um, sunrise was unbelievable. I had an amazing crew, good pacers. It's just like it's. It's like 30 something thousand feet of climbing, like 32 000 feet of climbing. So it just it's not fast. And I thought I thought the downs were actually not super runnable either, because it was like either steep or it was like a kind of technical, and so it was just a slow but beautiful experience.

Casey Koza:

Yeah that's, uh, that's one of the things about being a middle of the pack guy. You just, you know we get to enjoy things a little bit more. We can see the scenery. Look around, you know, ryan gets the top of a mountain, switzerland and certain. I'll just take a minute to gander over the at the matterhorn there in the background and seriously things probably get a little bit better.

Wil Walmsley:

Did you get to see a bunch of cows?

Ryan Thrower:

lots of cows, lots of horses, even many. They had the mini horses out there. I mean, I mean it's stunning the part that part of the alps just well, actually, I think a lot of the alps, but that part of the alps there's just no, not much tree coverage on when you're up high and so you can see forever and they're just peaks. And we ran by a glacier for six miles and it was so cool, everywhere you could just see forever, whereas like some races I've done, you know, in the past, it's like maybe you're in the forest for like 80% of it and I love the forest, it's a vibe, but um, when you can see forever, it kind of keeps, can keep your mind off stuff mind off stuff.

Casey Koza:

Is there any because will and I have been over there but haven't run a race over there? Is there any like big contrast between the culture of their races versus our culture of trail racing over here? Is there anything that like really stands out?

Ryan Thrower:

I don't think. At least, the thing is is like a lot of those euro races have a lot more people in them. You know, like you've been to UTMB, it's insane, yeah, crazy. Tens of thousands of people in Chamonix for trail running, and so you're like whoa, because we go to Western States and there's like 300 people in the race and you're like this is Western States.

Casey Koza:

300 people, that's so many people.

Ryan Thrower:

And then, yeah, you go to UTMB. You're like, oh yeah. So I think with with swiss alps, the, the unique thing was we were running through these like little villages and towns, but the race there wasn't. There was like 150 people in the hundred miler, so it wasn't the utmb experience and, other than running through the little like swiss mountain towns, it wasn't like that drastically different as far as like what you have at aid stations or you know, people are nice and friendly and everyone celebrates each other finishing. And yeah, I mean, for most races I've been to that are in europe, they're, they're way bigger yeah, the the one thing that Will and I talked about with our friends.

Casey Koza:

We'll talk about the crowds there Just overwhelming compared to anything we have trail running crowd-wise. We had Eli and Tabor on the show a few weeks ago and we were talking about that Just how insane the crowd is over there compared to anything we have over here, because we just don't, you know it's, it's pretty much you bring in the crowd with you, with your crew, and you know your mom if she shows up to watch the race and yeah, but there they get the whole village involved and you know, run around having a good time partying it up. So, yeah, it's, it's. It is really a cool thing to see and I, I hopefully, are, and hopefully one of these days we get into the lottery over there for OCC or something.

Wil Walmsley:

Or look to just do any other race in Europe. That'd be cool, I think. After going to Gorge last year and seeing the price tickets versus UTMB, I'm like, honestly, going to Europe's not too much different. And B I'm like, honestly, going to Europe's not too much different, it's not that much more where it's an impossible task just to go race in Switzerland if I wanted to.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, us in the Midwest it's a little bit closer, I think, maybe, than Ryan has to get over there. But yeah, the Gorge, that was awesome, man, that was a what a good event you guys run out there, thanks. And the thing that most impressed me was how much you guys care about it. I've been to some other races and all the race directors care, don't get me wrong, but just to make sure everything's perfect for the participants and the people there, you guys go overboard with the production of it, and the burrito afterwards was awesome yeah, well, thank you for saying that in your videos were awesome, of the race, I mean, and I have a theory of one of the videos.

Casey Koza:

I feel like there is a major rock band that maybe was inspired by the Gorge highlight video. Oh, this is a theory. This is a theory I have so honestly. So I was sitting here working and sometimes I'll play YouTube videos in the background or music or whatever, and I'll say the band is. After this Band's new album came on. I played the band's new album like eighth track or something. I'm like man that sounds familiar, that song. I know that it's just like the, the vibe of the song, the energy of the song. I recognize that from somewhere. So week goes by or two, and your video comes up for the gorge, the highlight video, and I hear it again. I run over the TV. I was like that's it, that's where it came from. So I feel possibly Travis Barker of Blink-182 saw your Gorge highlight video and that's how they came up with the song Blink Wave on the One More Time album, which I know you're.

Ryan Thrower:

That's definitely how it happened.

Casey Koza:

In my mind and that's what matters most to me. That's what happened, so I just want to give you credit for that song. Blink.

Ryan Thrower:

Wave off the one more time album thank you, yeah, put me in the wikipedia credits for that album thankfully I'm not a wikipedia editor, because I would probably derail my life.

Wil Walmsley:

So it's in the wikipedia wikipedia I got my own.

Casey Koza:

I got my own wikipedia right here, but one of the reasons I really want to have you on, do you produce all your own music for that?

Ryan Thrower:

Sometimes, yeah, it's hard, because the race recap videos are typically due one day after the race. Like, I have one day after the race to edit it, and then they come out. So if the race is Sunday, the video comes out Tuesday. If the race is Saturday, the video comes out Monday. In those situations, I typically find copyright-free music. If I have more time and I'm making something artsier, or maybe a feature-length film, then I do record and write the music for it.

Ryan Thrower:

It's never anything crazy intricate, just again, as much as music is my first and foremost passion, it's the lowest thing on the totem pole of when you're editing a video. So, like, right now, I'm working on a Western States film from last year to put out this year, and I have like a hundred hours of work to do on it, and then, if I wanted to do music, that's at least like another 10. And so, at that point, I'm like I'll just probably source music for it. But what happens often, though, is I have a sound in my head, and if I can't find it anywhere, then I'm like all right, I two hours, but put it on the clock and I'm gonna make the song that I hear in my head for this piece and then if I give myself two hours to make whatever I need to make, I love hearing that.

Wil Walmsley:

I love hearing that because, especially like how nonchalantly, like oh yeah, I just hear sound in my head. You know, I think that's something like you've mastered it so well for myself. I get so much anxiety. Someone's like hey, what do you want to play on? You know the speakers over here. I'm like I don't know what to pick. And then hearing you like every time one of your videos come out how many times casey's message means like man ryan is so gifted all of his music that he picks for this is just banging well, thank you, we put out a.

Ryan Thrower:

We put out a like hour-long treadmill cut video before the big alta of just like. It's basically like you run on the treadmill and watch this video and then you kind of get the vibe of what big alta is. I was like, oh okay, well, this isn't bad, I don't have to edit too much. I just have these like five to seven minute clips that I just put there and I was like, wait a minute, I have to. I have to pick an hour's worth of music for this video. So somebody wrote in the youtube like they wanted to know what the songs were. So I figured it out and wrote them all out. But yeah, that was kind of fun picking all those songs because, yeah, I don't know, it's I. That's like the fun stuff is putting music to video.

Wil Walmsley:

I could do that forever where does that come from, like that passion?

Ryan Thrower:

uh, my dad's in radio, so always has been, and he would. We'd listen to music. From as soon as I can remember we used to do like name that tune we used to. He'd take me to see all these different concerts when I was young, like with me and my sisters. I have a photo of like me and my mom and my sister at a beach boys concert when I was like three years old. They were my first concert. Yeah, I just have always just been exposed to music, and back when, like napster and limewire were a thing, I had like a 20, 000, 30 000 songs on my computer and, um, now it's a lot easier because you don't have to download anything and you just have a spotify account or an apple music account or go to youtube or whatever it is. But, yeah, so music's always been like music's my love language. I can play music, play a couple instruments and it's just. It's just, yeah, it's, it's the best, it's a magic beyond everything else.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, music is to me. Uh, it's, it's just, it's a strange relationship. Like I'm not talented at it, I don't have any gifts when it comes to music, but I just I like all sorts of different genres of music and it's just, I don't know, I get so into it and we go see so many shows. It's just such a I don't know an engaging experience, especially live music.

Ryan Thrower:

Where do you go? Do you go to Blossom or Cleveland or Cincinnati? Oh so.

Casey Koza:

Blossom is about halfway between Will's house and my house, so it's about 10 minutes from my house, five minutes from Will's house. So we do go to Blossom a lot. I go back to Pittsburgh quite a bit. Stage AE there is a really good venue with an awesome little music. I like the underground kind of dive bar stuff. That's like my bread and butter. We had a bar right down the street called Annabelle's and if they ever tour near you, go see them. They're called Dikaiju. It is a surf rock band from Alabama. They wear kabaki masks, they light stuff on fire, no vocals and they just tread for two hours and it is just hardcore mayhem. So that was my favorite place to go, but it's now closed, uh, but yeah, that's where we go.

Casey Koza:

I don't let me ask your opinion. This gets like. Here's the bands I'm most excited to see and they're from the 90s, 90s, 2000s. Uh, death cab, rob, zombie, blink, 182, green day and smashing pumpkins are like the bands that I'm most excited to see, that I'm going to see here live and it. You know. Tons of kudos to those guys who are still not only staying relevant but packing the shows like they're over. They're still over and what do you think it is, that there's no like newer I guess I don't know about them but newer bands to fill that, like you know what I mean. Well, yeah, I think.

Ryan Thrower:

I think what it is is if, like bands like death cab and blank have put out music consistently and so while they've grown older, so has their listeners, their group of listeners. So, if you think about it, like lands and transatlanticism and the postal service give up came out at like for a lot of people, like in high school or college, that are like the die hard fans of those bands and it's such like an impactful moment in your life and music to be the soundtrack of it that like you'll go see that anywhere, even if, like you haven't listened to them forever. Same with me and blink, it's like I don't listen to a ton of their new stuff, but if they were touring and I could go to the show, then I I would go like like you know they're. They just played like in front of 85 000 people in brazil. Yeah, where's death? Is death cab playing at blossom? No, that's pittsburgh they're in.

Casey Koza:

Oh cool, yeah, I think we're going out of pittsburgh to see. That's yeah. Where is Death Cab playing at Blossom? No, that's Pittsburgh. They're in. Oh cool, yeah, I think we're going down to Pittsburgh to see With Postal Service, yeah.

Ryan Thrower:

Yeah, I saw two of those shows in Berkeley here. Unbelievable man, unbelievable. Get ready to be blown away.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, I've been such a big fan of theirs, I mean since I can remember really Napster days downloading music like you were talking about. Yeah, I've never seen Postal Service live. Definitely see Death Cab more than a few times. You're a Blink fan because I see you like Blink stuff on no-transcript um got one.

Ryan Thrower:

The one I listened to most as an adult is their self-titled album. When I discovered willie and guy I had it was their single was damn it or off of dude ranch, which it came out in 97 or 98 and that was my first album I bought with my own money I thought it was like okay, I didn't really get it when I was young. And then enema, the state, hit what's my age again still one of my all-time favorite songs and which is kind of like off, I don't know. It's not normal for me to have such a popular song be one, one that hits me so deeply. But that song is just one of the best songs ever made and when you see it live, travis goes half time on the drums at the end and you just want to punch everyone and everything and just rock out and it's on. I got goosebumps just thinking about it.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, I had to ask is like same thing, damn it. With me from dude ranch. That was the first band I saw. I saw him open up for Jimmy world and wow 1997 or 8. Wow was in middle school, so yeah, that was, that was a long time ago, but that's just a band that stuck through me.

Casey Koza:

You know talking about music, but yeah, that's cool, that's just, and you can see it like I, you know, will have mentioned, I could see how you know, maybe you, you put, you put, like you said, those pre copyrighted tracks and or whatever, but it it fits. Your videos, man, like the songs always fit, like it's a. I'm watching a film. It's not just you said you're saying you're just throwing them together, you know in a day, but man, they have such a polished feel to them and sounds to them that you know I wouldn't, I wouldn't have guessed, I wouldn't have thought you had most of it like pre-produced or something, and you know sometimes the longest part of those videos like if I put a 12 minute video out or something like I'm working on one of Adam Peterman that I filmed last week in Missoula and sometimes the longest part of even over editing is me going through like hours and hours trying to find the song.

Ryan Thrower:

I'm like this isn't it, this isn't it, this isn't it and I go and I'm like, like I said, if I can't find it, I have to like okay, I'm gonna try to figure it out myself. Or I go through like a couple of different services I try to find music for, and I'm actually trying to get the rights to like real music for this Western States video. So we'll see how that goes and how much money I have to spend on my own money to do it. But yeah, it's, it's all about dude. Music's the most important thing for me.

Ryan Thrower:

For me, as like someone who also like when I watch a film and I watched it's either the use of music or the like direct, intentional use of there being no music. That always that stuff always catches me. Addy, my partner and I will be watching something to be like there hasn't been any music in like 20 minutes, like whoa, this is wild or man. That was like the right song. There's like 500 Days of Summer uses a Temper Trap song, sweet Disposition, and they use like a few seconds of it, just like the guitar riff, and it hits in a certain thing and like the right time, and you're like it had to be that song. And so that's always struck me with I don't know what I'm doing. When I'm making a movie, I still feel a movie, I still feel that way, but when it comes to like putting music in a film or something, I feel like I do know what I'm doing. That's something I'm actually confident in and I really enjoy it.

Wil Walmsley:

You did hint that you're doing a project for Western States. What's that video? Are you allowed to share that a little bit, yeah?

Ryan Thrower:

I'm doing a video. Last year this is from last year's Western States I filmed Adam Mary, who is an amazing buddy of mine, and he was the first black athlete to get a golden ticket at Canyons last year. He also won Chuck in it last year. And then I'm doing a video that kind of followed his preparation and his day of race.

Casey Koza:

Sweet, I know I'll watch it. So, thanks, day of race. Sweet, I know I'll watch it. Thanks, I didn't know what a Chuckin' Up was, but I sure watched your video on it, so I learned quickly of what the that's a fast race. Yeah, it looked like it. I like slow races. I'm a slow fan. Will likes the fast ones. I'd rather go up steep hills and down steep hills, because I'm not doing it fast either way.

Ryan Thrower:

Because you don't have any steep hills In Ohio.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, we actually. So we live along the Cuyahoga River. God, I hope I said that right.

Wil Walmsley:

I live next to it, you think I know.

Casey Koza:

I think it was close enough. I'm not a native, so forgive me, neither of us are, but we have some steep hills here. They're not long, but there's some. There's some steep. You know what? What do you think? Seven miles, we get a thousand feet in.

Wil Walmsley:

Well yeah, we probably can average maybe 100, 150 feet per mile. Um, it's nothing crazy steep, but most of your climbs you're doing like across that. You might do like four climbs that might be a half mile each. It's not like you're consistently going uphill. Yeah, um, I've heard the hills be described as punchy, you know, and in a way they kind of are because they're just steep, but then you just get flat sections and rolling that are kind of fun just riding through it and yeah, it's not too bad I'm.

Ryan Thrower:

I'm from northern indiana and when I go to visit my parents I'm lucky to get like 30 feet and a 20 miler. It's like we were just actually when, in florida too, we were just in um the tampa area and we were staying on the coast. And the first day I ran an hour and I had like I don't know seven feet or something. And the next day I had 90 minutes and I was like my foot kind of acts up with the tendon thing. That doesn't like too much flat.

Ryan Thrower:

So I had my parents drop me off at the bottom of a bridge that was 70 feet tall and for 90 minutes I just ran up and down the bridge. And then the next day I had a two hour workout and I was like, okay, I have to do it on the treadmill because I can't go back to the bridge again and I can't run flat. So I did two hours on the treadmill. I was like, whoa, this is what people do, who don't, who like. If you lived in Florida and you were training for a race that wasn't flat, like I was, like you just got to commit, even on a sunny day, you got to commit to the treadmill or go to that bridge. That's 70 feet tall and just run repeats.

Wil Walmsley:

That sounds painful when you're not traveling, are you?

Ryan Thrower:

living in Seattle Mostly, right now I'm in Marin.

Wil Walmsley:

What is the elevation like in comparison when you're in Marin or Seattle or Portland?

Ryan Thrower:

Yeah, well, as far as Marin goes, like this is the best day to day running in the world In my opinion. It's epic, it's beautiful. You have fire roads, you have technical single track, you have redwoods, you have grassland, just like the coasts. The views are insane. And so my typical like hour loop is, like you know, like 1200, 1400 feet, and then there's a you know climbs up to 2500 feet and I mean I just run out the door. I'm just right off the Miwok Trail here. It's unbelievable that every single day I hit like amazing trails.

Ryan Thrower:

In Seattle I typically run about a mile, mile and a half, flattish to Discovery Park and then the high point in that park's like 350 feet or so. So in seattle if I'm running in town, I just jog over to discovery park and then, but I do have some really great mountains, 20, 30 minutes away, like tiger mountain, and and then the difference with washington is it has like epic stuff close by, whereas like san francisco you're driving four hours for a look at the epic stuff, like I mean not that marin isn't like you know, you're on the coast, redwoods and tam, but it's just not the same as like you're in the mountains, like you're in the mountains and the cascades, with the olympics, and it's uh, you know, the s Sierra is obviously amazing. It's just really far away from San Francisco. So, but I feel like Seattle. The running in Seattle. You can't beat it because you're surrounded by three national parks, just countless trails, plus you have Vancouver and Portland close by. So that's why I've always loved Seattle. And then, obviously, I met people after living there 10 years and so I have a really good community up there as well.

Ryan Thrower:

So, yeah, and then Portland. I don't really spend much time in Portland, but they have Forest Park, which is really nice. That's a thousand, maybe 2000 feet right out the door. If you live close by, the gorge is really cool. Gorge 100K was my first 100K in 2016. So I've always had this like little soft spot for the Gorge. But those are like the three areas, as I feel like Marin has like some of the best day-to-day running in the world. And then I feel like Seattle is just your setup perfectly to have just the best trails. They're my favorite trails over anywhere else over Europe, new Zealand, wherever.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, the Gorge, that was your first 100K. That was a tough first 100K. Yeah, the the the gorge, that was your first a hundred K. That was a. That was a tough first a hundred K.

Ryan Thrower:

Yeah. That's uh, I don't need to cut off by like 13 minutes or something Awesome.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, that's a tough. That's a tough hundred K and you mentioned that you. You're running right now and we're in that's where the big alto was correct.

Ryan Thrower:

Yeah, it's northern marin. Yep, that area, the course is on, is a little bit punchier, a little bit steeper. Yeah, there's even a spot of like near the end of the 50k where it's like you lose like a thousand feet in a mile or less than a mile. It's pretty steep, so it's just a little bit more. I feel like it's a little bit tougher up there than it is in southern marin where I've been running. But, yeah, the Big Alta. We really lucked out with amazing weather. The weekend before it was Hurricane Katrina and the weekend after it was Hurricane Katrina. So we just got lucky with a nice 70-degree and sunny weekend and it felt like the race had been going on for five years, not year one, and a good bit of people came out. It was really, really fun. Just such a fun weekend. Can't wait for next year on that one.

Wil Walmsley:

I know how much I enjoyed gorge waterfalls. Last year I was really disappointed Couldn't get into big Alta. This year Daughter had a dance competition. How did free trail come about? Partnering with daybreak racing to help put on these events? And then is there another race that's going to be in the works. Are you allowed to say anything? If there is, because you guys put on some epic races, love them Like I want to come experience what I did at Gorge again.

Ryan Thrower:

Well, great questions. I'll start with our partnership with Daybreak. Jeremy and I the race director and his brother, aaron we're good friends. I've known Jeremy a little bit longer than Aaron and one day I was just texting with Jeremy, I think out of the blue, and I said yo, we got to put on a race in the gorge because I loved the gorge and it hadn't happened since 2017 because of the fires, because I loved the gorge and it hadn't happened since 2017 because of the fires. And so we were texting back and forth and I pitched him on this idea. I was like we got to do this. And then he basically came back and he's like well, the only place you can have a race is on the old rain shadow gorge course, gorge waterfalls course, and so because of, like you know, wilderness and where you can have permits and stuff, so then we basically came up with this idea to to pitch James, who owns a rain shadow, to see if we could buy it from him.

Ryan Thrower:

And I remember telling Dylan about this and he kind of laughed and didn't think we were serious. I was like no, I think this is a pretty cool thing. And then it happened and it like turned out to be like one of the most successful things we've done. And it just happened by, like me spitballing with jeremy about putting a race together, and then that partnership just worked so well that you know we wanted to have a race down here, like it's dylan's house is on the course of big alta. It's like, right, it's his what he runs every day. So yeah, and there's no race ever that's been on that area. So we thought let's do that, let's give it a go, and then, as far as future races, I plead the fifth. Maybe, maybe not.

Wil Walmsley:

Good answer. Yeah, I just still can't believe what Gorge just coming in. And you know the big climb of the whole thing. Coming from Ohio where it's relatively flat, seeing on the elevation chart, first two miles you go up 1700 feet and then by mile five you're coming back down. I'm like all right. You come out the bottom of Monotoma Falls, huge waterfall, not much else, and then I think in the next seven, eight miles probably saw over a dozen more waterfalls that you're running past under through A river crossing that some people just didn't want to get their feet wet. Like it was one of the most beautiful things, scenery wise, that I've ever seen. Like I'm so glad you guys brought it back.

Ryan Thrower:

thanks man, yeah it's. It is unbelievable how many waterfalls are actually on the course and if you have never run there before and race day is your first time running on the course, it's like such a special experience because anytime you're like, oh yeah, I'm kind of hurt and I've been running for 30 miles, 40 miles, whatever there's you just look up oh, another waterfall, and you run behind this one. Like you said, or you run in front of it or you run next to it, or you get sprayed by it. It's so close to the trail, so it's just a really cool experience. I remember my my day took a long time, like 16 plus hours. I think that was my first western states qualifier, actually, so I used that ticket to put with all the other tickets and now I'm hopefully going to get in, but at least I got on the wait list with that first gorge ticket in 2016.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, Mount Doom just took my soul. To be honest with you, that's the out-and-back section.

Wil Walmsley:

in the second half of the race it started snowing those big-ass snowflakes and it got cold.

Casey Koza:

I was freezing. And when am I going to get up this freaking mountain? I do not remember this in the elevation profile.

Ryan Thrower:

I'm pretty sure will told me it was flat after the big climb it's obviously too early to tell, but the weather this year looks like it's going to be around 70, so it should be really nice. And where it was, like you know, 31 and raining last year with like hail and snow, and I mean I was out there. I was out there from before the start of the race till after the end of each race did you put?

Casey Koza:

how many miles did you? Do you put in in a race video?

Ryan Thrower:

I've started to put in less because I'm working smarter, not harder. Western states are somewhere around a marathon, I thinkorge Weekend is typically around 30 or 40 miles over the couple of days. Black Cane is maybe like eight or nine now. Just I'm not running as much to get everything, but I do put in some miles, you know.

Casey Koza:

Black Cane was a fun one. That's where we took the trip this year. I'm thinking next year Will Big Alta.

Wil Walmsley:

Big Alta. I'm really hoping it works out the dance schedule yeah, finn doesn't have a a dance that day.

Casey Koza:

We'll uh, I I know with this group pretty much like what you did to sign up for the swiss race drinking some beer with some friends. Yeah, so, rob and david, who are the producers here, that's pretty much how this is, where we'll just be like, hey, this race looks cool, I've had three beers. Do. Do you want to go? Yep, let's go, let's go, let's do it.

Wil Walmsley:

What's going to be your convincing sales pitch? Because for Black Cannon you told everyone oh no, it's not technical, it's all downhill.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, it was all downhill Most of it, except for the uphill parts yeah. Redwoods.

Ryan Thrower:

I think I'm going to go with the Redwood sales pitch. Is there any Redwoods on the course? Well, I don't know, but you can, before or afterwards, go to Muir Woods, which is very close, and there's a lot of Redwoods there.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, I think that'll probably be the selling point.

Wil Walmsley:

I mean, after listening to the Hemings talk about it, I was pretty much sold. Not technical, fast, beautiful course.

Ryan Thrower:

Well, yeah, they're very fast, people too.

Casey Koza:

They're extremely fast people. Yeah, they are. You won Big Alta, and then what? Two weeks later came back and won the Black Canyon 60K.

Wil Walmsley:

I think Black Canyon was before Big Alta.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, maybe I mixed them up. It's hard to keep things straight.

Wil Walmsley:

I think it was two weeks yeah, big Alta was the end of February, around the 27th-ish Crazy.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, I would like to put it on our calendar. Will you booked your flight now to Western States, right?

Wil Walmsley:

Oh yeah, I'm going. I know I'll definitely try to bump India in June.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, I'll see it before the race and after the race. Probably won't see it during the race. I think David and I will be out there. So, yeah, we'll be rooting you on. You'll be one of my people that I'm watching.

Ryan Thrower:

Don't pick me in fantasy, do not pick me in fantasy.

Casey Koza:

I'll send you the screenshot, yeah.

Ryan Thrower:

Ryan to win. I'm a mid-packer, so I'm hoping to get the silver buckle, which is sub 24 hours. That'd be amazing, uh, but at the end of the day, I just want to finish, just want to do western states once in my life yeah, like because will.

Casey Koza:

And I got lottery tickets from grindstone and I entered with the absolute hope of please don't get in. It's like you know, I don't want that miracle lightning strike with, you know. So give me a few years at least, to where you then torture me, because I just I want to be able to finish it and it is such a, such a cool trail race and I'm looking forward to going out there and I'll definitely see you out there yeah, I can't wait to see you guys there, it'll be it'll, it'll be a fun time.

Casey Koza:

Well, your parents going Uh yeah, they're going.

Wil Walmsley:

I think even, uh, our sister's going to be there, my sister's going to be there. Yeah, I think the whole family's coming it should be a good time again then.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, nice Well, ryan, thanks again. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me, our group, here. We love the work you guys are doing, thank you.

Wil Walmsley:

Dude, best of luck with Gorge coming up. Thank you Very excited.

Casey Koza:

Thanks for being on the Hobby Dogger. Thanks for having me.