The Hobby Jogger Podcast

E04 | Jeremy Pope Shares His Strategy for Black Canyon 100K

• Hosted by: WeeViews & Branch Sauce • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Step into the world of endurance racing with Ohio's own ultra-runner, Jeremy Pope, as he opens up about his preparations for the Black Canyon 100K.  Our conversation covers the mental strategies for pacing and the balancing act of starting a race intelligently to preserve energy for the demanding miles ahead.

As Jeremy has also found a spot on the 2024 Western States waitlist, we delve into the parallels between the two races, contemplating the mini version of the Western States that the Black Canyon offers.

Wrapping up with the nuts and bolts that keep a runner going, we tackle Jeremy's choices in gear, from the decisions in selecting the right shoes—like the Nike UltraFly or Hoka's Tecton X—to the considerations for apparel that can make a tangible difference in conquering the heat.

Instagram:  @poperuns
Facebook:  Jeremy Pope
 

Casey Koza:

Thank you for joining this week's hobby jogger. Our guest today is the Ohio King of Trails himself, jeremy Pope. Jeremy has won the Super Bowl 50K, the Burning River 100, the Buckeye 50K, the Bigfoot 50K, fools 50K, mohican 100, rock and Root 2 times and he is the three-time winner of the Burning River 50. Ladies and gentlemen, jeremy Pope, hey, thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate you being here today. The reason we have you on today, however, is you are going to a much bigger race out in Arizona the Black Canyon's 100K. Yes sir, february 10th, february 10th, that is in the Black Canyon. I believe it is a park, correct? Maybe Does anyone know Rob? I don't know Arizona very well. I did a research. I guess could have looked that up, but I didn't. Rob is also running the 60K as well as myself. Rob will also be hosting today's show with me. I appreciate that, rob. Thank you for joining us. Thank you Now, jeremy. Black Canyon 100K. Are you doing anything different to prepare for this?

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, honestly. So I've been doing a lot of climbing. I did Grindstone 100K, which was 12,000 feet of vertical 100K, which ended up being I don't know somewhere close to 65 miles. Anyhow, I remember that well, it was miserable.

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, I really just did tons of climbing for that. I got as much as I could in Ohio and then I substituted the treadmill as much as I could as well. This round I'm just grabbing eight weeks. I'm going to try to hit as much speed and distance as I can. I'm really going to focus more on the speed. Just try to keep some wheels under me and go out there and see what happens.

Rob Myers:

You said you did a lot of climbing. Climbing helps you running, just the strength training piece of it.

Jeremy Pope:

Just climbing on the treadmill specifically.

Rob Myers:

Oh, okay, I thought you were on the side of a wall with a rope.

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, I don't love that much. Yeah, just crank the treadmill up to like eight, nine, 10% and just run as hard as I can as long as I can. A lot of times it was 45 minutes is what I would work out. You're dumping sweat and getting a good workout in. I felt like it truly made my legs strong for grindstone. I was running really well at mile 50 all the way to the finish. A couple pieces there with a smart start, but me and my legs were strong all the way.

Casey Koza:

You mentioned smart start. That looks like it's going to be something that's very important for this race. I think it's very important for every race, especially this one, because the field obviously is going to be pretty deep. Three golden tickets to Western States, some people who haven't qualified yet, out trying to get there. They're shot at a golden ticket. I imagine we're going to see some pretty fast splits at the opening. How do you handle that? How did you handle it at grindstone? Because that was very similar field, I imagine. What do you look at? Is there a certain pace where you say I'll back off and then try and reel them in, attach a little bungee cord to them? What are you expecting out of Black Canyon?

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, I think that's a good question. I honestly got myself detached at grindstone. I like to go off a feel. Maybe it's a little bit too comfortable for me. At grindstone. I was just going off a feel, starting some of those first climbs. By the time we hit mile 20, I was just in no man's land. I was by myself. There was nobody in front of me, nobody behind me. I think for Black Canyon it's going to probably be double the depth of the field of grindstone, just in the way that people can run fast on flat stuff. Grindstone had the technicality and the climbing in there. I think I'm going to just start smart again. I'm going to look at some of the splits and I'm going to look at just truly what my effort and what my history has provided me and try not to be stupid. Truly, I want to be able to get to mile 45-60 and I want to still be able to run. 45-50 is what I meant.

Rob Myers:

Yes, it is Arizona. How are you preparing for the sand? I've run a couple races in the sand and it just destroys your calves.

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, I've got nothing there. I really don't. We have trails here that are slippery. It was muddy this weekend. I was on the trail I'm going to do rocks and roots, 50k coming up. It's going to be muddy. The trails are always muddy here. I think that will be just fine.

Casey Koza:

Trying to make that a three-time champion of the rock and roots.

Jeremy Pope:

We'll see. I'm just going to go down there and just try to run hard. It's a cool little course. It's a figure eight 10K loop either way, either side. Do five loops. That's not ideal, but I don't mind it.

Casey Koza:

One thing we do try here is to help. The podcast title is Hobby Jogger. Three of us four of us were very much hobby joggers. You mentioned that you want to go out smart in this race. One thing I have noticed as someone who starts out in the second third of the pack and tries to make their way up to the front third of the pack, is there is a lot of people who do not do that. And when I say they don't do it, they do the exact opposite of that. They go bombs away much, much faster than their body can handle they can handle. How do you stay in control mentally and not go out and do that? Because obviously your very easy pace is much different than me and Rob's easy pace. So how do you not go out at six minute miles in 100K when I see people around my level that are going out in six minute miles? How do you handle that mentally?

Jeremy Pope:

I haven't done enough of these big races yet. I really have not being at Mohican and in those races you're getting a small, small portion of people that are even going out in front of me or with me and I'm not saying I'm ever the one leading the charge or anything. I just I know historically splits, like I know what it feels like, I know what that distance to pace is. I think for this one I'm gonna know splits. I've been watching some of the previous live streams and then some of the previous, like Black Canyon YouTube's kind of, while I'm sitting on the treadmill huffing and puffing away. So there's definitely history plays in there and I don't wanna be setting a 50K PR to the 50K point. That's not gonna do me any good.

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, I'm gonna go off a feel and then I'm gonna have definitely some stuff probably written down whether that's, I don't know, on my arm or maybe it's just in my head at mile 10, 20, 30 type of thing. I'm not saying I'm not gonna get wrapped up in all of it either. So doing have a Lena. Last year I definitely got wrapped up and went way too hot. So we'll see. I'm excited.

Rob Myers:

What's way too hot? Is that like a 530?

Jeremy Pope:

I don't know. No, it was more like having this little different start, cause it's kind of some sneaky uphill on the loop. Those were probably 730s to eight minute miles, still fast, yeah, out in the desert.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, that's still moving, you know Pretty quick pace. Yeah, I remember watching that and yeah, there was a group that went out front bombs away, six shooters blazing and a couple of them kept rolling through. And it seems I watched you at Buck Eye 50K this year. You and our friend of the show will we're running it and it seems like that's kind of what it is now. It's just, hey, we're gonna go all out and we're gonna see how fast we can run and if we don't make it, we don't make it and we'll show up another day, but if I have my day, I'm gonna win. Do you see that changing now, cause you have quite a bit of a resume where you've been around a bit? Do you see that changing, that mentality changing in people where they're just hitting, send and seeing what happens?

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, I think absolutely. It's hard too in those 50K distances because now that's still 31 miles and you see younger guys and marathoners and stuff. They can send that and they hang on right. It may be ugly at the end but their time is their time and they are able to push through. I like this longer stuff, you know cause it does you know when the bomb goes off? Sometimes it really goes off. I don't know. I don't love the feeling of going out with people and doing their thing. Unfortunately that puts me in like that weird. There's almost like this secondary pack that's in the back of those lead packs that these types of races. So I think, if I can put myself somewhere in that uncomfortable zone, stay strong throughout and really try to make the second half the bread and butter.

Casey Koza:

And it looks like the second half of the race for you specifically does play a little bit more into what you're coming off of like from the grindstone. There's a bit more climbing, it's not just a long gradual. You know what looks to be I could be wrong, reading this wrong. The course like 14 mile downhill through the canyon of pure speed where it gets a little bit grindier in the second half, and I see that you have raced, you know, some of those grindy races, so it looks like that could definitely benefit you. Is that something that you're already eyeballing for this race?

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, I think for sure. I've studied the course profile. I think enough now. I've put a little plan together for myself for the next five weeks. It's going to depend on how smart I am early and then how I'm able to eat. That's where a super competitive race like this is. I'm not going to say one, because I'm going to be looking to just be as high placed as possible. I don't know what that's going to be. I think the second half of this thing is going to be very important.

Rob Myers:

And how do you factor in the ups, the flats, the downs before a race, especially a race that you're not really familiar with the course first time running it? Do you calculate that out, or is it just I'm going to give it everything I got and slow down when I need to, speed up when I need to?

Jeremy Pope:

I think kind of what you said, to end there slow down when you need to speed up, when you need to. Being able to know what's coming up ahead is definitely crucial. I think the second half of this race it plays out the way our trails do around here, more so than some of the mountain races where it's like six straight miles at I don't know eight, nine, 10% grade. We don't have any of those and that's okay. So I think the second half of this thing, when I go to Mohican and train it's up, down, up, down, up down constantly and honestly you don't get too many flats. That's where I'm going to throw in long runs on the road and really try to speed up but then keep those other 25 plus long runs on those trails that are up and down.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, the second half definitely looks more, from the topography standpoint, more Ohio-like, especially up here where you've ran quite a few races Burning River where it is just that up, down, up down constantly. It's not summer steep, but it's never long, it's always short, quick, then you're back downhill. You can't really get into a rhythm and it's like you said, there's no six mile long, 10% grades, uphill or downhill. This race obviously downhill.

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, that's the stuff. So truly, that's what excites me about this race. It really is.

Casey Koza:

And you said you're going to race. Smart, you're bringing the A team for the crew for this race. I am you got your wife coming. Are the kids staying at home?

Jeremy Pope:

Kids are staying at home. We're still doing it, the two of us.

Casey Koza:

So you and Holly are going. Those that don't know most of you listening won't know. Jeremy is the father of two young ladies, two young girls Also. Are you coaching La Crosse or is Holly coaching?

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, she coaches the high school, but then I help with the youth program. So coach the smaller kids.

Casey Koza:

So you stay quite busy outside of running. It's not all just running. Yeah, yeah, it's not all running yeah not just a pro trail runner out there enjoying the life living in the hammock, getting up and running 20 miles a day.

Jeremy Pope:

No.

Rob Myers:

Your wife and kids run.

Jeremy Pope:

My wife's done a couple of half marathons. She likes to stay in shape by running. She coaches cross country at Worcester High School. She's in the running world, she understands it, she knows it. Yeah, she said who is going to be the best fit to crew you. To keep you honest, I was like hands down, you are.

Casey Koza:

That's what I was going to ask Now. Is she going to be able to keep you the smartest?

Jeremy Pope:

There's a couple of sections there. Oh man, I think that one section is 15 miles. You don't see crew. Maybe it's even longer, but I got to stay smart in there.

Casey Koza:

I am on the wait list for the 100K. It doesn't look like it's going to happen, thankfully, but yeah, it looks like there's not much crew spots. What two? Do you have two crew?

Jeremy Pope:

Three, I think the one you hit twice, and then there's two others. I believe that's how it is.

Casey Koza:

Oh, ok, yeah, I wasn't sure, because I really have only been studying the 60K map so I could see when I can walk, when I can eat my snacks, things like that. So that's what I've been studying, not studying for you. But I will be out there to support you. I'll try and keep you moving, I'll try and talk you into quitting. Don't worry, hey beer, ride around the corner bud.

Jeremy Pope:

I'm going to earn those beers first. Good.

Casey Koza:

Now you're also on the wait list for Western State, speaking of wait list, correct?

Jeremy Pope:

I'm on the wait list. I'm way down there, but I'm on it.

Casey Koza:

How many years was it to get on wait list for you? Five, four.

Jeremy Pope:

That was five years.

Casey Koza:

Yep, so five years you're to the wait list. You're number 73. Yes, sir, my math is correct. And you moved up to what? 68?

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, there have been five. I think Four or five people that have been.

Casey Koza:

Hoping you get in this race seems like a very good buildup to Western States. It seems like a very similar course down through the canyon. It's not going to be hot, it's going to be cold in the morning I guess it might warm up. Did you maybe go into sign up for this race with thoughts of helping you out at Western States?

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah for sure. I looked at it as maybe just truly like a mini Western States. For me, it's going to be getting around all these super talented people. I need to put myself into those positions because I genuinely believe I'm also super talented, so I need to put myself around those people. See what happens. I think this is a baby Western States and, honestly, the way this thing is shaping up, it looks like it could even be a deeper field than Western States, just by sheer numbers and the amount of runners that they can let in. I think that's exciting for everyone and the sport in general.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, just looking at the entrance right now, there's currently 1045 entrants. I believe they said 1300 was what they could take. I could be wrong on that. Again, I'm on the waitlist but I didn't really look into what my chances of getting into it were. So you're right. Yeah, it's going to be a very fast awesome for the sport. I know Aravipe Erasing, who's hosting this, does an excellent job with the live stream. You were a part of that last year at Javalina. Do you think that'll factor in a little bit? I mean, you gotta be on TV, you gotta want people to see. Is that kind of excitement? Do you think that'll factor in at the starting line?

Jeremy Pope:

I think it does. Are you saying for me specifically yes, for you specifically yeah, I don't know. I didn't think much about it at Javalina but honestly, once I got out there and I got moving and then there were just cameras everywhere, there's people everywhere and at Javalina it was more so. You just do that 20 mile loop and come right back to this massive camp and I had truly never. You talk about the small Ohio races, you don't see anything like that, just thousands of people. It definitely messed with me. I mean I was. You want to say that hey, oh, I'm not nervous and I'm all these things. But yeah, I was pretty nervous and I was in all those moments that were coming at me at Javalina. I could not take all that on and I ultimately DNF that race, but I think it was a learning experience.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, oh, it's certainly a big change when you go from. We have our Burning River 100 here, which we all adore, and kudos to Western Reserve Racing for putting on some phenomenal event. All the races are top notch here in Ohio. But to go from how that race is, where, yeah, there's some people out in their yard cheering for you or whatever, but you go out to a stage like Javalina, like you said, where there's just people scattered throughout the desert and everyone's cheering for you. You get back into a rave and the DJs playing. Yeah, big difference, I think, for anyone and anyone who says they're not nervous, especially when they're gonna put their hat in the ring, like you did, to go out there and, hey, I'm gonna give it my best shot, but give it a go. It's a little bit of a different game than us hobby joggers sitting in the middle of the pack wondering where the next beer sand is.

Rob Myers:

Yeah, I mean, running is such a personal experience, especially when you're in the race. I mean when you're deep in the race, you're in the zone. You just hear that voice in your head. I can just imagine the distraction cameras, people everywhere.

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, you're absolutely right. There were lots of things in my head and I usually think I'm very, very good at dealing with all that stuff. But boy, that was so different to me. The desert also threw me for a loop. It was just so different than I'm just used to be in the woods, in the woods and forest of Ohio, so it threw me for a little loop. I'm excited about Black Canyon because you have a little bit. It's not so desert as Havilena.

Casey Koza:

I don't know. I watched some of the same YouTube videos you did while I was on the treadmill and some of those cacti sorry are very close to the edge of the trail. I did see I think maybe it was Havilena this year some poor girl was like basically fell her face first into a cactus and needles sticking out of her and I'm hoping that doesn't happen. So, yeah, that's. You know, I run with snakes in bear country, but cacti is a whole different animal, I think. So looking forward to that for sure.

Rob Myers:

It happens more often than you think. I mean, I ran a race in Tucson in the desert. It was just 10 miles. There were at least three or four people that ran into cactus man. They were just carbon blood. It was a mess, Rob. Don't tell me, it's a real thing. It's all right, casey, don't get through it. Believe a little bit.

Jeremy Pope:

On that first lap of Havilena I ran with Pat Regan for a period of time I don't know if we were together, maybe four or five miles and that was the number one thing. He's like oh, you're from Ohio, like you've never been here. He said the number one thing you need to watch for the jump in churros. And that's exactly what that cactus is, that big ball. But he said, when you get within about a foot of it, it's like it doesn't. It's maybe like the static from your body or something, but that thing just essentially jumps right at you.

Casey Koza:

So the cactus cacti is going to attack me? Is what you're saying Essentially yeah.

Rob Myers:

Chase, yeah. The second thing is the rattlesnakes. Because they like to go out, they'll curl up in the trail because of the warmth from the sun and they'll sit there all day. There was a guy at the starting line of the race that I ran and he was telling me if you hear the rattle, just jump, just jump. That was his advice.

Casey Koza:

The snakes don't bother me as much. I run out in Ohio Pile where you run over rattlesnake ridge. They announce themselves pretty well, I think. But the attacking now cactus is maybe not something I'm looking forward to. Poor Annie's going to be digging cactus needles out of my rear end.

Jeremy Pope:

Well, that was what Pat said. He said it's OK, though, because they have vice grips at each age station, they can pull them right out with the vice grips.

Casey Koza:

Yes.

Jeremy Pope:

You're kidding, right? No, no, that was exactly what he said.

Rob Myers:

Killer, you need to change the subject. I can see the look on your face, casey.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, that's just I try and avoid getting hurt at these things. That's my number one goal. Number two is to finish.

Jeremy Pope:

We didn't see any bear at Grindstone, though.

Casey Koza:

No, no, we didn't see any bear Well. So Bears don't scare me, they're kind of timid Coyotes, don't scare me. You know, I grew up out in Pennsylvania so I've seen bears eating out of dumpsters. They're just big furry animals that doesn't bother me. But I never want to see a hurricane again, that's for sure. After that grindstone, and you finished 12th there correct.

Jeremy Pope:

Yep, that was 12th.

Casey Koza:

That was a good performance at what ended up being just a miserable. Miserable day. I mean that was, I think, having experienced it was a lot more difficult and there was a lot more drops than I've seen in a lot of races. You know, 50 to 60, it was 65 miles, so they kind of added a few on there that they didn't need to. But you know, I think you had a pretty good day out there. Would you agree with that?

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, I felt pretty good about it. You know, I really feel like I got just. I really got detached early on in the race for whatever reason. I just wanted to stay comfortable and I think I stayed a little bit too comfortable. I told you guys this earlier, but I finished really, really strong and I felt good about it, but I really felt like there was some left on the table. I feel like sometimes you can you can seem cocky saying that or something, but I felt like that. So you know, I wanted to be top 10 and just missed it. But man, again, that field was fast. The guys up front were absolutely flying In 12th spot. I was a still a good 30, 40 minutes back from the 10th position and I had I had the lead female nipping at my heels, the last, I think 10 to 12 miles, so take nothing away from her. I felt like I wanted a little more out of myself. But on that day the weather was absolutely horrendous and stop raining and I think that led to a lot of the dropouts.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, I mean, I know I saw the guy that they wouldn't. They were like hey, bud, you're, you're hypothermic your day's over. We're going to drive you back in and get you next to a campfire or something, because you're not, you're just not doing well. The last 15 miles of that were up here suffer fest, Like I didn't feel, cause I thought I had conserved myself enough, but I just I got so cold that I couldn't, I couldn't stay warm. The producer of the show here, David, I had to borrow one of his shirts at the last crew stop. I was just, I was frozen. So you're not going to have that issue here at the canyons. You might sweat a little bit.

Jeremy Pope:

That's going to be totally different.

Casey Koza:

Now we've used. It is a running review site gear. Let's talk a little bit about the gear you're going to be using. I know traditionally you don't use a pack. Are you going to be using a pack for, for the black canyons?

Jeremy Pope:

I honestly don't think I will be. Now I'll use my naked belt and then I'll probably have a soft flask in that, and then I haven't decided whether I'll use just one or two handhelds. Hydro pack makes a nice soft handheld. It's like a soft flask that has one little strap, so I enjoy those. Yeah, I'll just be using soft flask.

Casey Koza:

I believe there's no mandatory gear for this. I'd really need to start reading these things that I sign up for and see what they are. So I'm not surprised, you know, like the week before, when Will tells me that you have to carry a cell phone, a GPS tracker and whatever else we had to take at that last one. So I need to get do a little bit better at that.

Rob Myers:

And that's part of the fun. You don't know, right, you just show up, put some shoes on and go yeah, part of the adventure.

Casey Koza:

Speaking of shoes, rob, what shoes do you have lined up for this race?

Jeremy Pope:

I don't know. I'm on the fence. You know, I saw. I saw some Hoka athletes last year use the Hoka Maka X. I need to look at the course a little better. I might switch shoes, and I never switch shoes, so it's either. The Hoka Tecton X2 definitely is my favorite shoe. I don't tell my wife this, but I need to get a new pair, so I need to do that.

Casey Koza:

Sure that probably I get made fun of now because I have more shoes than my girlfriend, so I understand.

Jeremy Pope:

So but I the other shoe that I think will do well here and I have, is the Nike UltraFly. I don't love it on our technical trails at home with the rocks and roots, but I think this I don't know, I don't know, I need to experiment just a little more.

Casey Koza:

I actually got to try that on. We went down. They were giving out free beer at Second Soul up here in Akron. Was it a good time? Yeah, hey, that's a good way to get me in the store. And they had a Nike representative there with the UltraFly's and got to try a pair on and jog around a little bit in the parking lot. They felt very much like road shoes, so I could see why you probably wouldn't want it. The second half, I imagine, because it looks a little bit more technical. But they definitely had a road shoe now super shoe kind of feel to them. So you have to let me know what you decide to go with. Maybe I'll, if I do get in the Hunter Cal, make a shoe change as well. Several shoe changes I enjoy that.

Jeremy Pope:

Yeah, it's technical. Yeah, I don't know. There could also be. There could be that sandy mud stuff too, if there's any weather. So that's definitely a decision to be made. I love the Hokemok X, though, and I know that Heather Jackson wore it last year. I need to do some more research for sure.

Rob Myers:

So, jeremy, how deep do you get into the shoe selection specs? Right, when you're picking out a pair of shoes, are you looking at the collar on the shoes and measuring it and the toe box and the drop, or is it more based on feel?

Jeremy Pope:

I like to dive into the weeds for sure. I work at Fleet V here in Worcester so I'm a shoe geek for sure. I love it. Casey Will and I talk shoes all the time. We talk mainly Hocus, but I go off of feel and then I definitely like a lighter shoe. I don't think you can go wrong with the plate and the Tecton X right If you can get a little advantage there.

Casey Koza:

Yeah, even if it's just giving you 1%, and it's such a light shoe that I mean whenever, you know, I kind of go deep into the studies because I like numbers and I'm a little bit more geeky than most and it seems that the number one factor for no matter. Well, the foam foam is very critical, but the weight of the shoe also is very much a performance indicator, more so than necessarily the foam or the plate. If the weight is absent, so if the weight is high, it doesn't matter how responsive the foam is, that you can kind of lose that effect. So that's one thing the Tecton X has working for it is it is a very light shoe. So I was looking up the Mach X weight here. Website has a 9.4 ounces.

Jeremy Pope:

It'd be close to the Tecton.

Casey Koza:

I'm not sure here. With my research I didn't dive that deep. You think I have a pair. I should know what it weighs.

Jeremy Pope:

I think every race that I did this past year in 2023, I wore the Tecton X. I can't tell you. I may have had maybe one or two small blisters. I think every single race I ran was, I mean Burning River 50 was pouring down rain for every second of that and Grindstone 100K I think it rained almost every second of that race as well. Mohican was dry, but other multiple 50Ks that were a complete muddy mess. The shoe just fits my foot really, really well.

Casey Koza:

It's way better than the first iteration of the shoe, for sure.

Rob Myers:

And.

Casey Koza:

I look forward to when they release the Tecton X3 so that I can buy the Tecton X2 at a discount. Yeah, that's hopefully coming soon. Have you had the ability to see that shoe yet, the X3?

Jeremy Pope:

I saw the specs and the images, but it's pretty basic so I haven't seen a ton.

Casey Koza:

Yes, I mean. Obviously. It was worn in UTMB this year, so I'm sure that Hoka will hit a home run with that as well. They have a majority of their shoes. Is there any other gear that you'll be strapping yourself?

Jeremy Pope:

Nothing too specific. I'll go light. I'll probably go light colors, probably go arm sleeves to keep some ice and just keep them wet. I did that at Havilena, sprayed one of my bottles kind of on my arm sleeves.

Casey Koza:

Big fan of the long sleeves. In the hot desert I used to. Back in my soccer days, we play a game in 90 degree on the turf and I'd be out there at long sleeves. People, I can't believe you're wearing long sleeves Like you're crazy. It's so hot out here. I'm like you're not going to see my skin get fried while I'm standing out here for the next 90 minutes. So I'm the one that's going to be cool. You're going to be the hot one, and I think there's something to be said when you see all the the roofers and the guys doing lawn work throughout the summer that they all have long sleeves on too. So I figured those guys know a lot better than me. So I go long sleeves.

Rob Myers:

That's very adult of you. It's a good reason.

Casey Koza:

If I see someone that has to suffer through the heat all day doing something and I'm not a big fan of the heat I will. I take people. I take advice from people who know better than me all the time, for sure.

Jeremy Pope:

I honestly, I really enjoy the heat for some reason. I'm not sure what it is, but I enjoy it.

Casey Koza:

Well, jeremy, we certainly appreciate you coming on here. I got no more questions for you, rob. You got anything? No, we appreciate it, thank you. Yeah, we covered a lot of black canyons. We look forward to being out there with you. Well, we're not going to be out there with you, we're going to be watching you out there. We'll be hanging out with Holly in the nice shade and drinking a hopefully a mimosa or something.

Jeremy Pope:

Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I'm truly looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to having the time out there with you guys. The race will just be a little piece of the puzzle. Also to say thanks to Branch Sauce Company out of Cleveland, ohio. These guys are always hooking me up with my race bills and I really appreciate them.

Casey Koza:

That's Branch Sauce. You can find us at branchsaucecom. You can find Jeremy at Pope Runs on Instagram. You can also find him on Facebook at Jeremy Pope.